RIP Robin Williams

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Robert R
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RIP Robin Williams

Post by Robert R » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:35 pm

Robin Williams Gone at 63, of Depression.

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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Magnaryder » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:18 pm

A GREAT talent and an equally great loss.....

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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by elgrau » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:24 pm

Never really liked him all that much (except maybe in "Dead Poet's Society"; even "Good Morning Vietnam" was more a vehicle for his over the top humor and not so much any acting ability; and to me "Mrs. Doubtfire" was just a very poor copy cat movie of "Tootsie" and Dustin Hoffman's brilliant acting in that movie). His brand of humor was too over the top for my taste and IMHO a bit phony. Yes he suffered from "clinical depression" but he also did coke and alcohol to excess which are choices he made that lead to this. Alcohol is to depression what pouring gasoline on a fire is. So we all reap what we sow. After watching a few episodes of Kentucky Justice tonight and seeing what drugs does to a community I DO blame celebs like him that some young people look up to and so that kind of means they have some responsibility to set a good example to these youngsters and NOT do illegal drugs. Comes with the territory and the high "pay" and celebrity (again, IMO).

He is/was a part of the liberal Hollywood type lifestyle and those who basically have no real value system and thus turn to hard drugs and alcohol to find/escape any meaning to life. Their choice; RIP Robin, but I for one won't miss his brand of phoniness and his pity party (and simply irresponsible party-party) way of life....sorry.
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Robert R » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:22 am

Elgrau, I'll begin by saying the nicest thing I can about your post: - you are of course entitled to your opinion, as always! But I can't help wondering how considered it is...

Whether you cared for Robin Williams humor or not is irrelevant in a discussion of depression. Personally, I found him very difficult to watch - wanted to find the button that slowed him down. But many loved his style, it seems. Our opinions of his peculiar genius are not the point here.

As I close down my seventh decade of dealing with chronic depression, more than ever it strikes me a cruel and ignorant mistake to condemn a suicidal person, whether in show business or not. You might instead pity them [except in this case any pity comes too late]. Many turn to drugs. I see no point in even mentioning any distinction between legal and illegal drugs - their legal status is just a result of politics, and legal drugs - tobacco, alcohol, and prescribed medications taken as directed - destroy many, many times the number of lives as the illegal ones.

Having depression is not a choice! Or a crime, either. The idea that it was caused by drug use is pure blather - an offshoot of the far-right fallacy that dogmatically insists that anything bad that happens to anybody is his own fault (until it happens to them, of course). But when a depression victim is at the low point where his choice of the moment seems to be either suicide or some chemical to relieve the pain, which would you recommend? And in the name of all reason, how can you question the choices made by someone who is mentally ill?

It would seem you really mean it when you call people "liberals", as if being that were something detestable. It isn't.

The far right [they call themselves "Conservatives", but they are not - they are Reactionaries] has adopted the word "liberal" as a sort of banner to wave, or a finger to point, since their old standby, "Communist!" went out of fashion. That "L" word is a strange choice , and one that is quite revealing about the character of the mis-users of it. You really ought to look it up sometime.

Actually, I'll save you the time and trouble. From the American Heritage Dictionary, we see that liberal means: Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad minded. Generous, unselfish.

Webster adds this: Of democratic or republican forms of government, as distinguished from monarchies, aristocracies, etc.

So if someone calls you liberal, you might feel a certain pride. Especially since the precise antonyms aren't very pretty: narrow-minded, opposed to all progress, selfish, stingy, dogmatic, dictatorial, bigoted, intolerant...

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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by frenchguy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:12 pm

well said robert! =D> I totally agree with you! I read a article about depression as related to open heart surgery as I have had 2 valves replaced & so did Mr. Williams. It said that between 20 and 30% of heart valve patients suffer from severe depression post surgery. Robin had heart surgery 5 years ago & it seems thats when his depression issues started! so to say his depression is his own fault is foolish if you do not know what he has gone through! as someone that has gone through that surgery let me tell you it is that hardest thing I ever had to go through in my life & would not wish it on any one!! regardless of the reasons for his decision to end his life it is very tragic & his family has to live out their lives wondering what they could of done to prevent it! no matter how you look at it or if you liked him or not, it is very sad & I feel for his family & friends! He was a good man who did a lot of good in his life & for other people!! this world was a better place with him in it!!
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by elgrau » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:31 pm

RR wrote "I found him very difficult to watch - wanted to find the button that slowed him down. But many loved his style, it seems. Our opinions of his peculiar genius are not the point here."

Basically his "style" was to be coked up 24/7, especially as an "aid" to his standup routines. I don't find that to be genius anymore than I find steriod use in baseball to be "greatness". Just cheating... So no, I won't/don't pity him; and I'm sure he would despise my pity anyway (as he should...I believe him to have been a real man about these things, regardless of any other criticisms of him).

As to depression, their is plenty of room for theories as to causes and cures. From personal experience (self and daughter), I believe that PHYSICAL health is much more linked to mental health/depression than most want to think. IF you are in great physical health and shape and feel good (which is almost impossible given the Standard American Diet - or "SAD"), depression (the kind with no discernible reason/cause) is unlikely to manifest. Depression from money issues (as he had) and other things (bullying, sexual abuse, etc.) is another thing altogether. Taking ACTION in those cases might be the only/best cure for those cases... My daughter suffers from clinical depression and has for years....so I DO have a lot of experience dealing with the whole concept of "clinical depression", and I DO know what alcohol consumption does to her (especially when combined with anti-depressants): it's day/night: she can go for months just fine and coping and doing fine and then get together with "friends" and have too many drinks and she becomes suicidal and very depressed. So she's learned that alcohol and depression don't at all mix: Williams evidently could not learn that truth.

All we can really know for sure is through personal experience. I had a "brand" of depression in '94-~'96 that had me wanting/trying to kill myself several times. All totally irrational so I understand the "illogical" nature of depression. I like Vonnegut's take on it as being caused (as ALL emotions are - good or bad, according to his "theory") by the presence of good or bad chemicals in our brains. I just happen to also believe that physical actions (diet, exercise or lack of, drug ingestion, etc.) are primarily responsible for which kind of chemicals these are that are in our brains. Endorphines in the brain from exercising is a great example of Vonnegut's "theory"... The brand I had was totally "cured" through physical actions (elimination of "bad" foods with all matter of bad chemicals in them, exercise, supplamentation to address the WHOLE body health and well being, etc.). I just cannot see that if one were to magically transform one's body to the pristine state of perfect health that it was in at birth (i.e., totally free of all the "bad" chemicals accumulated throughout and leading up to adulthood), how one could ever be clinically depressed under those conditions...

But these are for the most part not beliefs that make the big pharmicuetical companies billions from pushing THEIR answer to clinical depression: nice little pills that will make you all better! This is the "victum"/"disease" solution that lets everyone off the hook....supported by the MSM that is of course owned by the same folks who run the whole corrupt show... Mahalo, and best wishes to all regarding this very real affliction....
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by frenchguy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:37 pm

Ed, bottom line it is very sad when someone chooses to do this & leave behind family & friends to suffer with it!! all of us have faults & sometimes life is a bitch, but we have to be strong & make the best of things because life is too short, but there is a lot of good things to enjoy & make good memories!! :( [-o<
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Shortcake » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:47 pm

frenchguy wrote:Ed, bottom line it is very sad when someone chooses to do this & leave behind family & friends to suffer with it!! all of us have faults & sometimes life is a bitch, but we have to be strong & make the best of things because life is too short, but there is a lot of good things to enjoy & make good memories!! :( [-o<
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Robert R » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:33 pm

Elgrau,

I can agree with much of what you say here. As to causes, besides the possibility of genetic predisposition, the rest can all be lumped under the popular general term of "stress" - psychological, nutritional, chemical, even thermal. With me it turns out to be largely endocrine disfunction, especially adrenal deficiency that follows excessive...well, anything. My control has been glandular supplements, carefully selected by my very special type of chiropractor. My usual symptoms are not suicidal, just complete malaise. Music has been a great help. I listen to Beethoven and marvel over how he could write what he did while going through what he had to. Besides deafness, he had chronic mercury poisoning, never diagnosed until about 20 years ago, from a saved lock of his hair.

As to the drug companies, you couldn't possibly say anything rotten about them that I'd argue with. Ordinary murderers and thieves that get locked up for life are mere dabblers compared to them.

My main beef with your post was that is seemed out of place, in time and location, and therefore pretty insensitive. Why go to a thread where a few fans of a dead performer might gather to mark the good things he did and to mourn his passing, and then dis the guy, before he's even cold? Save it for later, at least, I'd suggest.

The other thing that sets me off is the inane, pseudo-pejorative use of the word "liberal", and you aren't the only one doing that, I know, only too well. When it comes to the English language, I'm reactionary. "Liberal" comes to us via French from the Latin word that means "free", as in liberty, liberate, etc. I can't sit silently and let a word be twisted and perverted the way they have tried to do with that one.
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by elgrau » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:58 pm

uh-huh, FG and SC and RR (in my best Carl/"Slingblade" voice... :lol: ).

As to your views/definition of "liberals", RR: labels are just that and don't define the actual reality of situations. e.g., "generous, unselfish" might be a dictionary definition of "liberal", but the public record has clearly shown that liberal democratic/socialist/progressive/communist candidates' tax returns show their % charitable giving to be FAR below that of conservative GOP candidates. The truth is that liberals are only generous and unselfish with other people's money...not their own. I guess an excuse for this would be that they consider everyone else's money to BE theirs!
As to the rest of their "ideals", you could say that the road to hell has always been paved with good intentions... And just as it may SEEM to be generous and broad minded to give a man a fish (or shield your off spring from the cruel realities of life, etc.), it really is not and you are instead doing much harm to these folks and to society in general by this "compassion". The real world dictates that it is better to instead teach the man to fish and "tough love" your off spring than it is to make both dependent upon you and your "generosity". Both will be far better off and will retain somethings that liberal democratic policies always take away: dignity, self reliance, and freedom.

As to "My main beef with your post was that is seemed out of place, in time and location", the topic of this forum thread is "Depression: RIP Robin Williams", not "Robin Williams' Tragic Untimely Death"... I was giving my views on each.
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Toy Maker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:29 pm

I have a very good idea what was going through his head when he decided to kill himself. I have been there more times than one. Depression is no joke, and you don't just "snap out of it"
Regardless of what causes it, if you are seriously depressed, suicide can seem like the only way out of it at times.

Stress, anxiety, frustration can all compound the problems of depression, making it feel impossible to get out from under. Once you are in a depressed state, it can take little tiny things to push you over the edge.

Evelyn is Bi-Polar. She can have extreme highs, and even more extreme lows. Jekyll & Hyde if you will.
If you have never seen it happen 1st hand, you wouldn't believe it's real. And most people don't believe it, and say stupid things like "snap out of it" or "just go relax"
It doesn't work that way at all !

Some of the things that go through ones mind are:
"They would all be better off without me, then they wouldn't have to deal with me"
"Sure they will be sad, but they will get over it, and be better off without me in the end"

I've gone through WEEKS of severe depression before.
Not leaving the bed room for 3 weeks type of shit. Only eating when your kids stand over you till you eat something...

Right now I'm in the middle of a mild state of depression... I can fee it, and I know it's there.
Most of the time, (for me) it comes in the form of severe "writers block" (or at least that's what I call it)
It's almost impossible for me to think, concentrate, or work. If you've ever gone to work when you have a really bad cold, and you sit there in a haze all day, and can't even think. That's what I feel most of the time.
I'm actually glad that's all I feel most of the time... just BLANK. Like I said, my bouts with depression are nowhere as severe as what Robin Williams was going through, and anywhere close to what Evelyn has to try to deal with every day. As shitty as things feel at times, I know I'm lucky that it could be a whole lot worse. But some people just can't see that, no matter what anyone does or does, the mind will do as it pleases.

Here was what was going through my head as I got out of the shower one morning....
I decided to take a photo to let people see how my mind was reprieving reality.
It wasn't a call for help, or to try to get attention, just a snapshot of what my mind was trying to decide to do next.

The caption I wrote was, "One of those days where any decision seems like the wrong one"

Image

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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by elgrau » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:59 pm

Hearing you, TM...
I'll just post one more thing on this topic (which is depressing... :lol: ) regarding how physical health and nutrition is a factor in "clinical depression":

In Germany (where they of course have socialized medicine and thus are less influenced by the corrupting effects of large drug company profits...), patients with depression MUST first do an initial treatment for their depression that consists of x number of weeks using a highly potent form of B vitamins NOT from dead sources like petroleum by-products but 100% natural (and well known as natural stress relievers). The article states that a very high percentage of these patients are "cured" of their depression and require no further treatment (I don't remember the exact % - I want to say I remember it to be 95%). The small % that are not cured of their depression from this natural nutritional based treatment are then and only then "allowed" to be put on anti-depression meds....
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Shortcake » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:32 pm

"The truth is that liberals are only generous and unselfish with other people's money...not their own."

Then I am hardly a liberal.


I grew up with a mother who was diagnosed bipolar, manic depressed and THAT is probably the only thing that keeps me here sometimes. I could NEVER to do to my kids what living with her was like, and would never threaten the things she would threaten. She is an anomaly - taking depression to a whole other state of being. I won't get into that here - it would never sound on paper what I really mean to say in person. I do however feel it, and understand others who feel it, and know those who have gone from here because of it. (My o=mother is still with us, but not in my life)

Again, I understand depression. And I would venture to say from both sides of that fence (living with it and living with it around me) and many can only speculate about when they say things like "Selfish" etc.

Here is what I call selfish. When someone you claim to care for tells you "I am depressed" and you do nothing, say nothing, or worse yet, tell them to snap out of it. Selfish is listening to someone who NEEDS so desperately to hear something nice, anything nice, at any given moment, will even beg for it - and get nothing except maybe made to feel foolish for feeling that way.

Everyone can have moments of depression - desperation. I don't think all of it can be a "mental" imbalance. some of it can just be feeling alone, doing everything you can for everyone, and feeling alone in spite of it, wanting to feel something, anything, except alone or worthless.

I used to say I could have a party tomorrow and no one would show (it's why i didn't have my 50th this year) but if I were to die tomorrow, the funeral parlor would be bare - they'd all be at my house to get what they can one last time. Hell, I still say it. It's why I limit those around me and still I feel alone, used, shit on, ignored by those select few sometimes - fuck it to be honest - most of the time - because I need those "nice" words of encouragement, those thoughts, those missing feelings to be in my head rather than my own quiet thoughts, and people today just don't care enough to give them. I try everyday to "be" there for those around me because I understand that feeling, but int he process, it leaves us wishing I had it too. That isn't something I wish for myself or anyone else. It just IS.

So when you speak about depression, consider who you are speaking to, who may be reading it, and who may be in it. I certainly wouldn't want the last words someone reads from me to be something I wish I could rephrase.

And if anyone ever feels it - I am here to chat. any time, any day - because even though we feel like it at times - WE ARE NOT ALONE.
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Re: RIP Robin Williams

Post by Shortcake » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:35 pm

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“Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything.” ― Plato

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