CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations (LOCKED)

12th Annual CARVERFEST 2018 September 5th - 19th
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Re:

Post by frenchguy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:03 pm

treitz3 wrote:
Maybe we don't need the thread and everyone just call and book what they want, when they want? Now that would be something incredible, I am sure.
We established the "pecking order" to prevent a nightmare scenario and honor those who stayed the year prior by reserving first dibs on that same cabin for the following year. If we were to do this, who would stop someone from renting out WS7 for 3 weeks? I'm quite sure that Eddie and Bob would be very angry if this happened. They have been loyally staying at that cabin for close to a decade. They deserve first dibs on obtaining that cabin again this year, regardless of how long or how bad someone else may want that cabin. What if someone wanted to rent out your cabin for 3 or 4 more days then what you wanted it booked for?

We established the pecking order to prevent folks from ruining the vacation of those members that have been loyal to Bob and the 'fest over the year's.

Back in the early days of Carverfest, all parties agreed on any changes. Not just one or two members. This is not a dictatorship. It's a GROUP event.

Tom
Exactly what I have been saying all along Tom!! ](*,) Thanks for the clarification!! =D>
Now I hope things can get back to normal!! [-o< I didnt start this topic but tried to do what is right for all the CF attendees that have been coming for years, we need to proctect our core CF family members! 8) we want new people attending CF, but not if new attendees push veteran CF attendess out of their choosen cabin, we will make every attempt to find accomendations for anyone wanting to attend CF!! :-k all we ask is to be respectful of all the CF people who were here before! this topic is resolved as far as I am concerned, but some damage has been inflicted that we need to resolve so our CF family can be united with everyone on the same page on this! I truly hope we can get back to where we were before this came up!! [-o< Thank you for those of you who fought for what is right!! =D> 8)
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by kingman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:03 pm

We established the pecking order to prevent folks from ruining the vacation of those members that have been loyal to Bob and the 'fest over the year's.
I hate to bring this up but the original question has never been truly answered...it has been sidestepped. Why can't Travis be guaranteed Cabin 1 for 10 days? What is to keep someone from booking a treehouse one day longer than say Bob and Carol and kicking them out? They have been loyal fest goers for years now but have no guarantee that they won't be "displaced" What is the accommodation for them or any of the part time attendees for that matter? I have been attending Carverfest for 9 straight years but in no way am protected from being kicked aside other than the length of stay and money unless I book 14 days. We have rented all three lofts since they were built but if someone decides that they want to stay in say Loft 1 for a day longer than I do, they have priority and therefore it upsets the renting of all three which I have handled for our group of Eric, Don, and myself the entire time . That just isn't right. There has to be a tenure system that gives "senior" part time fest goers priority. I have always welcomed new guests and have been the initial contact for several of the Carversite attendees including Sea to take them around and introduce them to the "regulars". I'm all for new people enjoying the festivities and great atmosphere...BUT...I don't want a newcomer to have the option to kick a regular fest goer out of their accommodation because of length of stay when I would venture that many NEVER attend another fest after that. We know the amp build has attracted many simply because of the draw of getting a huge discount on a Bob tube amp. Where were these people last year when there was no build activity? I, along with others, have spent considerable time and money at Carverfest. I believe that the TOTAL investment of days stayed year after year outweighs the ONE TIME investment of someone else. There will never be a perfect system but here goes...what say a tenure system where a day dibbs is rewarded for each year you have been to Carverfest? I'll use myself as an example. 9 years attended = 9 days dibbs on accommodations. You can use that and/or add what is actually being booked. Say I book Loft 1 for 5 days next year. I would be covered for 9+5=14 days or the entire fest and could not be bumped. New attendees would have to book around what ever I reserve. If there is a reason for non attendance one year whether sickness, money or whatever, you don't lose the tenure you had. Face it...life happens and last year Don wasn't able to attend because of the hurricane. Should he have to start over at square one because of that? I don't think so. If I decide not to attend, I'll give up my spot to someone for that one year. I know I am going to be a human dartboard because of suggesting this but there has to be a system that is fair to ALL of the regulars, not just the few that stay the entire 14 days. P.S...I will address the disparity in competitive pricing breaks at a later date.
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by frenchguy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:08 pm

I agree Wayne, =D> we need to proctect the core CF people that have been attending for many years!! not sure what would be best, but something we should discuss for sure! 8)
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Shortcake » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:23 pm

I don't see where anyone removed Travis or anyone from anything, other than him asking to be removed. The fact that it says requested over dibs? All the back and forth everyone was doing over who wanted what and some side conversations.

I stick with my understanding, nothing has changed. I can't recall anyone ever pulling someone out of a cabin, ever, once reserved / dibs or whatever you want to call it this hour - now that would be shitty...and never had a lottery. Maybe that was before my time lol.

Far too many reading more into the original post that was reposted from way back when on the 'tier' or whatever anyone wants to call it, IMO. I know I was asked several times when I was doing the list just to get it started to have that post reposted - to have Mark repost that post - To dig it up and repost it myself - this by several here who now seem to have issue with it.
Boy am I glad I didn't.

Let's think of that post as a guide but also an understanding of a gentlemen's/gentleladies' agreement. If you were there before, call it, make arrangements with others, and keep in mind we are all friends or friendly foes. I don't understand why everyone is making it seem like there are animals here all of a sudden out to feed off carcasses.

You each know Mark, Travis, and everyone else. Really, think about what the insinuations in these posts are really saying.

Now, can someone repost the reservation listing again, up to date - so we are all on same page???
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by trav0810 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:39 pm

I was never kicked out, or removed from the list. I actually, willingly, gave that cabin to George and Janice since they were staying for the full duration and I really didn't care whether I had a cabin, or a treehouse.. At that point, I was going to take a treehouse, but there I would have the same problem. What good does it do for me to call dibs on it, if someone who is willing to stay longer can take it from me?

The system, in place, should protect regular attendees or returning members. They should not have to worried that someone is going to come along and boot them from their cabin because they are willing to stay there a couple extra days. And, yes, this has occurred before. People have been moved out of cabins because they were not staying there the full duration. While I agree that there needs to be some sort of guidelines for minimum renting time, I believe that requiring a full 2-week commitment to ensure you have a place to stay is excessive. And I feel that is what most of the people here are saying. This is what people were trying to express to Mark and to Ray. The rule was written, and decided on by a group of Carver Fest members, before the event was two weeks long. Once theperiod of stay was extended, the rule needs to be Revisited. And that cannot happen by one or two members to terminating what they feel is best, there needs to be a group consensus

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Don » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:44 pm

kingman wrote:
We established the pecking order to prevent folks from ruining the vacation of those members that have been loyal to Bob and the 'fest over the year's.
I hate to bring this up but the original question has never been truly answered...it has been sidestepped. Why can't Travis be guaranteed Cabin 1 for 10 days? What is to keep someone from booking a treehouse one day longer than say Bob and Carol and kicking them out? They have been loyal fest goers for years now but have no guarantee that they won't be "displaced" What is the accommodation for them or any of the part time attendees for that matter? I have been attending Carverfest for 9 straight years but in no way am protected from being kicked aside other than the length of stay and money unless I book 14 days. We have rented all three lofts since they were built but if someone decides that they want to stay in say Loft 1 for a day longer than I do, they have priority and therefore it upsets the renting of all three which I have handled for our group of Eric, Don, and myself the entire time . That just isn't right. There has to be a tenure system that gives "senior" part time fest goers priority. I have always welcomed new guests and have been the initial contact for several of the Carversite attendees including Sea to take them around and introduce them to the "regulars". I'm all for new people enjoying the festivities and great atmosphere...BUT...I don't want a newcomer to have the option to kick a regular fest goer out of their accommodation because of length of stay when I would venture that many NEVER attend another fest after that. We know the amp build has attracted many simply because of the draw of getting a huge discount on a Bob tube amp. Where were these people last year when there was no build activity? I, along with others, have spent considerable time and money at Carverfest. I believe that the TOTAL investment of days stayed year after year outweighs the ONE TIME investment of someone else. There will never be a perfect system but here goes...what say a tenure system where a day dibbs is rewarded for each year you have been to Carverfest? I'll use myself as an example. 9 years attended = 9 days dibbs on accommodations. You can use that and/or add what is actually being booked. Say I book Loft 1 for 5 days next year. I would be covered for 9+5=14 days or the entire fest and could not be bumped. New attendees would have to book around what ever I reserve. If there is a reason for non attendance one year whether sickness, money or whatever, you don't lose the tenure you had. Face it...life happens and last year Don wasn't able to attend because of the hurricane. Should he have to start over at square one because of that? I don't think so. If I decide not to attend, I'll give up my spot to someone for that one year. I know I am going to be a human dartboard because of suggesting this but there has to be a system that is fair to ALL of the regulars, not just the few that stay the entire 14 days. P.S...I will address the disparity in competitive pricing breaks at a later date.


Well thought out respectful response Wayne. =D> Certainly worthy of more discussion. "Shit happens" rather it be hurricanes, fires, finances, health (yea some of us are getting to be old farts) and last year it certainly happened to the Deal's with Hurricane Irma. No doubt, the amp build has brought newbies into the CF fold, but there has to be a workable system that is fair to everyone, but "regular attendees" year in and out should have priority.

All opinions are to be respected, even though we may agree to disagree. We must not forget we are all at CF as friends and family to enjoy our hobby of music and camaraderie. As we continue to discuss toward a workable solution, there are a couple of quotes that are deserving to attach and not, and I repeat, not directed toward anyone in particular. We are way bigger than this folks! We must not lose any more forum members over this issue!
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Robert R » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:00 pm

It's great that we finally debate over the cabin rules; it needs to be done, openly and intelligently, with input from all. But while we do that , let's not lose sight of the other big problem - that of leadership. Who has the job of enforcing those rules, and from where do they get their authority?
I've voted for Ray's wonderful carrot cake a couple of times, but never voted for him or anybody else to be a self-appointed boss here. Anybody remember any such vote?

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by trav0810 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:31 pm

Robert R wrote:It's great that we finally debate over the cabin rules; it needs to be done, openly and intelligently, with input from all. But while we do that , let's not lose sight of the other big problem - that of leadership. Who has the job of enforcing those rules, and from where do they get their authority?
I've voted for Ray's wonderful carrot cake a couple of times, but never voted for him or anybody else to be a self-appointed boss here. Anybody remember any such vote?

RR
I completely agree Robert. Open discourse is the key to getting this taken care of. We need to be able to discuss this as a group, without anyone getting their feelings hurt. Just because you don't like someone's idea, doesn't mean you don't like that person. I'm sorry to see that Mark decided to leave, and I certainly hope that he reconsiders. It would be great for him to take part in the discussions.

The fest has been growing. I think there are a lot of options that are open to us. But first, and foremost we must take care of our returning attendees. We obviously have limited real estate, and the members that come year after year after year certainly deserve their place there. It's understandable that events may occur where someone can't make it a particular year. They certainly shouldn't be knocked down to the bottom of the totem pole for that. As we've seen this year, Watershed is willing to open up additional accommodations if we need them. These should be options for members attending for the first time. Allow them to work their way onto the mountain!

I truly hope that we can proceed diplomatically and find some middle ground that is agreeable to us all.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by UncleMeat » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:39 pm

I'm just going to mention this, as I have met most of those in this discussion in 2016. You are all a fine bunch of people and a friendly group, I'm glad to have had the opportunity to meet everyone and attend my first CF in 2016. But if it were not for the ability to obtain a room to sub-let I never would have met anyone; nor gotten the chance to meet Bob Carver who was exactly the type of person I expected him to be; incredibly friendly and approachable just as everyone else was that I was able to meet and talk about audio with.

MARK, PLEASE DON'T LEAVE the CA group and abandon Carverfest! You are one of those who I'd call the heart & soul of this group of people and those attending! I understand that you were trying to open the event up to more 'newbies' during a year when attendance will peak. Unfortunately I don't think the new 'pecking order' is going to work out like you and Ray had originally thought it would; so maybe it's time to look at other options, JMHO. But please don't throw in the towel, try and work through this with your friends of many years, despite however difficult it has been on your friendships recently.

In order to INCREASE overall attendance and 'grow' as a festival/group, occupancy duration needs to DECREASE (except for the person EVERYONE would like the rare opportunity to meet). For now, that's all I'm going to say on the matter...

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Toy Maker » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:20 pm

I find it amusing that no one gave 2 shits when Ray and Mike decided that I wasn't welcome back in my own cabin after taking a year off, even after agreeing to it before I took the time off. But now that things might effect everyone, now we have a big problem.

Keep up the good work Ray. One big happy family right?
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by frenchguy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:41 pm

That's not true James, that was between you & Ray & we didn't think it was our place to interfere! We would love to have you & your family back at the fest! If it wasn't for you it wouldn't be what it is today! You provided us with 2 successfull builds that ended up being 2 prices of equipment that I use frequently! I spoke up now because the majority of the people thought it was not right what was being proposed just like what happened to You! Everyone at C.F. we hope you come back as well, you should be there!
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by trav0810 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:02 pm

I don't think everyone knew what the agreement was between your and Ray or exactly what the situation was. I didn't. I know that I'd really like to see you guys back.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by sea » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:11 pm

I think everyone can agree that things are way out of control. I sincerely hope that we can find a way forward that brings Mark back home.

I think most all can agree that the wording of the now infamous Pecking Order, while well intended (at inception), could have unintended results and maybe outdated now that CF is officially a 14 day event.

I also think most will also agree that things have gotten way out hand based on what could happen but really never has. However, the prospect of new attendees attracted by the Amp Build makes the possibility perhaps more likely than before.

In an attempt at harmony, I make the following suggestions. This should not be intended as my trying to take over or assume any authority. I think we need to move forward with changes only with strong consensus.

For CF2018, the people who attended CF2017 will have absolute right to the same cabin as long as their desired length of stay is the same or longer than CF2017. George has requested cabin 1 and RobertR has requested cabin 2. Old Texas Dog has said he is not coming and 2 was empty last year so no conflicts there.

I would further propose that the cabins that were empty last year and the added cabins be allocated first come first serve with a minimum 7 day stay.

I further propose that we have a “business” meeting the second Friday night of CF2018 (or some other time when the most people are present). We can then collectively determine a path forward. We should have a provision to seek and accept input from past attendees that may not be present at that time. I personally think Wayne’s suggestion has merit and could be a good starting point.

I noticed that Shortcake is asking someone to post the latest cabin listing. I am sure that is a hot potato that no one wants to pick up. I am willing to take on the updating of the list if it would be helpful under the provisions above but only as a record keeper.

So……comments or suggestions. I would imagine that we would want at least 2/3 of last year attendees to chime in positively and that there be no strong objection.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by kingman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:16 pm

frenchguy wrote:I agree Wayne, =D> we need to proctect the core CF people that have been attending for many years!! not sure what would be best, but something we should discuss for sure! 8)
I agree...it's a starting point. Everyone is protective and want's what's best for THEM. Money usually talks....we know the rest. You spoke up and didn't think it was right for Travis to be treated that way. People got pissed and that's where we are now. What happens next will be interesting. Will good will and loyalty outweigh the almighty dollar? News at 11....
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Zoot Horn » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:29 pm

Well said Ed!

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