Learn How To Listen

Here is software to teach one how to listen.
I ran across it and downloaded it.
It looks like fun, but I am too sleepy to play more with it tonight.

Maybe Tom should make everyone take the class before his cable swap.

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/2011/01/welcome-to-how-to-listen.html

There are many informative publications on this topic. I must say I learned there is one thing everyone should learn during the process of learning to listen and that is learn to set up properly.....

Rainman

learn to set up properly

...SOOOOO right!!!!

learn to set up properly

...SOOOOO right!!!!

Yea, but that is hard to impossible.

Even the Rabbit has a pool table and an odd shaped room.
I do too.

My room is kinda like a half circle, and there is a pool table.
Actually, it is exactly like a half circle as I live in a round house.

So Wayne, what do I do?

Should I just give up or live here in shame and hope no one drops by?

Even Tom has those kids running around blocking audio signals -

OO

So Wayne, what do I do?

As Bob would say, enjoy the music.

Unfortunately, many people do not know what to listen for. They start with the frequencies, then stereo, then whatever the hell they conger up as the sound stage. I know personal preference plays into this but of the 3 aforementioned, it's funny how many people......ah, never mind. I don't feel like getting into it.

Enjoy listening to the music, whatever it means to you.

......ah, never mind. I don't feel like getting into it.

Come on, share --
What may be obvious to you is not so much so to me and maybe some others who don't have your background and experience.

Grab a diet coke and share ---

Nah, I'll just piss people off. I'll be more than happy to discuss it over the phone when you have some time but I'm not one to argue [can't stand arguing] and this subject will be a feeding frenzy for some.

So Wayne, what do I do?

Unfortunately, many people do not know what to listen for. They start with the frequencies, then stereo, then whatever the hell they conger up as the sound stage. I know personal preference plays into this but of the 3 aforementioned, it's funny how many people......ah, never mind. I don't feel like getting into it.

Let me simplify if for you if I may. Here is the definition of Sound stage from the dictionary. You will find it to be quite easy to grasp and how NOT complicated it is to understand. Sorry to bust your nuts Tom, but Sound stage does not have anything to do with frequencies, stereo, or congering so the 3 aforementioned do not play a part in it. Ready for the big one?? Here ya go...
Rainman

Definition: Soundstage is the ability to visualize the placement of musical instruments and vocalists in a music recording. A good soundstage also allows the listener to perceive the size and space of the performance venue in which the recording was made.
Pronunciation: sound•stage
Also Known As: soundstaging
Alternate Spellings: Sound Stage
Examples:
A good soundstage in a music recording should be three-dimensional with height, width and depth

Idggit.

Like I said....

Idggit.

Like I said....

I was seriously trying to help him see it's nothing to be afraid of because it appeared he was making much more out of what it actually is and I didn't want him to think it is an impossible thing to improve on or reach for because it really is that simple of a definition.

Rainman

OK......I don't claim to know alot about audio....but I do know a little......soundstage seems to be a BIG topic on this forum....as it should right? After reading alot on that topic here on the forum, it seems to me that it almost seems like a "contest" as to whose system has the best soundstage...This guys uses Type "A" interconnects so his rig sounds better than the other guy's system who uses Type "B" interconnects....or maybe because the Type "A" I/C costs more or got better reviews.....or "he" uses "these tubes" instead of "those tubes"....does it really matter who has the best soundstage when all that REALLY matters is what your rig sounds like to YOU? When I sit down in front of my system to enjoy some music do you really think I care what anyone else thinks it sounds like? I DO NOT.....If my system sounds absolutely wonderful to me then I have accomplished what I set out to do. Now don't get me wrong guys....I will entertain any new ideas, tips, etc to improve my soundstage...I cannot tell you how many times Rainman has called me and said "Dude....I was messing around with speaker placement today and man you should try this"......and I will......if it works...great....if not....hey OK........I cruise this forum everyday for AT LEAST an hour......I enjoy reading about everyones ideas and experiences.....there is a shitload of very knowledgeable audiophiles here...I truly did not understand that so much as 1/2" inch could make a HUGE dufference in soundstage....or moving this chair here or placing a rug there could make....I actually find it enjoyable to make the best of my situation...a SQUARE 12 X12 room to listen in....hey...its not the ideal listening room by any means but its fun to take the advice from you guys here on how to make do with what I have......all I know is that when I relax in front of my rig I love what I hear....period. Now I am quite sure it could be better with different placement, treatments or those 5-Star cables but right now I am limited....I TRULY believe Kingman summed it up perfectly..."In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU"........my $.02

To me Soundstage was always the placement or position of instruments and vocals.
Width and depth, on some recordings are spectacular, and with the curent onslaught
of dipoles and open baffle speakers being offered up these days it seems that is
what the audiophile is seeking.

Imaging, to me, was always what happened to the sound after the initial strike or pluck.
You can place the sound in the soundstage, but after that what happens?
Does the sound decay left or right, up or down......like a triangle being struck
and deminishing one way or another or up and down. A drummer moving from one side of his kit to another,
A sax player going from low notes to screaming highs with the mouth of the horn following
his position from knee to chest height.

I am lucky enough to have a couple of different types of speakers to play with.
The dipoles do some things better than the arrays and vice versa....but they both produce
huge stages
The one thing I have always noticed is that the "soundstage" will alter some amount with the
different types of "CD player" I am using. But where things really show up in quality of player
is with imaging......at least with my system. I have a number of older palyers and a Denon 2930ci,
the music sounds decent on them. But if I replay the same(well mastered) disk on my quality
player..Raysonic 128...the imaging is much better, knock your socks off better.
This is one of the reasons I have kinda stayed away from the computer playback....
I am concerned about the $ I would have to spend to get that type of experience back again.
But I guess sooner or later.......

Just my 2 cents......

PDR....

It's not the CDP you are listening to... it's the newer, better DAC in each one you are hearing.
I'm sure your Raysonic has a much newer and or better DAC than your older SDP's.

Getting into a music server does not have to be crazy expensive. Start off with a Squeezebox and your home PC.
All you need is to run the software on any home PC, and have a WiFi router.

Now granted, the Squeezebox is only $300, and does not have the upper, top of the line DAC in it...
But it is a great starting point to begin building a music server system, without breaking the bank.

Later if you decide that a music server is the way to go, then you can start putting $$ into your "high end" hardware.

Our music server system consists of a (stand alone) 7-TB Acer Home Server, and a Squeezebox3
We have about $600 into the server, and $300 into the Squeezebox. That's it !
And we really didn't need the server, it was just better to get all the music off our every day computers in the house.

The one major upgrade I see in the future, is replacing the Squeezebox with a Transporter ($1200) as it has the TOP OF THE LINE DAC in it.
Other than that, there really isn't anything to upgrade TO. Really no reason to build a super-computer to listen to audio at all.
The computer should only be "STORING" the information, using a high end DAC (Transporter) to play it back is where you want to spend a little $$

Try it, it will only cost you $250-300 to start playing around and learning.
I have always told everyone one here, Get a Squeezebox, and try it. If you don't like it, I'll buy if from you.
I can always use another player around the house or shop.

OK......I don't claim to know alot about audio....but I do know a little......soundstage seems to be a BIG topic on this forum....as it should right? After reading alot on that topic here on the forum, it seems to me that it almost seems like a "contest" as to whose system has the best soundstage...This guys uses Type "A" interconnects so his rig sounds better than the other guy's system who uses Type "B" interconnects....or maybe because the Type "A" I/C costs more or got better reviews.....or "he" uses "these tubes" instead of "those tubes"....does it really matter who has the best soundstage when all that REALLY matters is what your rig sounds like to YOU? When I sit down in front of my system to enjoy some music do you really think I care what anyone else thinks it sounds like? I DO NOT.....If my system sounds absolutely wonderful to me then I have accomplished what I set out to do. Now don't get me wrong guys....I will entertain any new ideas, tips, etc to improve my soundstage...I cannot tell you how many times Rainman has called me and said "Dude....I was messing around with speaker placement today and man you should try this"......and I will......if it works...great....if not....hey OK........I cruise this forum everyday for AT LEAST an hour......I enjoy reading about everyones ideas and experiences.....there is a shitload of very knowledgeable audiophiles here...I truly did not understand that so much as 1/2" inch could make a HUGE dufference in soundstage....or moving this chair here or placing a rug there could make....I actually find it enjoyable to make the best of my situation...a SQUARE 12 X12 room to listen in....hey...its not the ideal listening room by any means but its fun to take the advice from you guys here on how to make do with what I have......all I know is that when I relax in front of my rig I love what I hear....period. Now I am quite sure it could be better with different placement, treatments or those 5-Star cables but right now I am limited....I TRULY believe Kingman summed it up perfectly..."In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU"........my $.02

X2 Well said!

Hey James....

I know its the DAC, but I have also been reading from people like BillD that its also the associated electronics that work with it
that determine how well the DAC performs. Quality parts and engineering cost so when I see this inside the Raysonic:



I just cant see myself getting the quality I already have without spending a lot.
BUT.....you are absolutely right in trying to get me into this......as I have a big learning curve ahead of me.
I did have the oportunity to try out a tubed DAC with a USB port(Grant Fidelity DAC 90), and I played music from my computer
and it sounds very nice. It would also be a new toy....what do you think?
Good place to start.....or the squeeze box?
Or am I thinking they are similar, but two different things.....