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A500 Diagnoses ?

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jjptkd

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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:20 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Repair can be expensive, its best to single out the problem first obviously and it may well be a miss match of speakers to that amp, my Klipschs' are very easy to drive so my situation may be unique. Depending on how deep your pockets are you might want to consider a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5, 200 wpc @ 8 ohms and it doubles down to 400 watts per channel @ 4 ohms. That amp has multiple RCA outputs that can be used to "daisy-chain" as well. They sell used around $750-$1,000.
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F1nut

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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:33 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

The TFM-15 has a specific RCA pass through designed for daisy-chaining amplifiers for multiple speaker/ amp configurations,


Never seen that on a home audio amp. Weird anyway.

I use to run a A500x, my brother currently has it now. I could turn the volume all the way up on my Klipsch speakers with that amp and would run it for hours some times at 3/4 volume, it would barely get warm.


Low gain pre amp?
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:39 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Sounds like you have it hooked up correctly. I had forgotten about the CB model, but recall someone talking about the second line level output before.

That aside, there is an obvious problem if it's shutting down. Could be as simple as a blown piece in your speaker or wires touching somewhere....or might be an internal issue. Let's not jump the gun until you can check. First make sure no speaker wires are touching pos to neg anywhere. Then check the ohm reading of each speaker.
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jjptkd

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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:26 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

The 500 I had was and still is paired with a Sunfire TGP-III. Picture I pulled from the web of the TFM-15cb. I've always liked this amp, very versatile with built in A/B switch, the RCA pass through and bridgeable to 280 watts, plus it sounds pretty darn good up until it runs out of gas.
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jjptkd

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Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:30 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

I just realized that the above picture is of the original TFM-15 so it has all the same features, its just not bridgeable like the 15cb.
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Doug

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:00 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Hello,
I have disconnected the tfm 15 and just ran the 500, I am still getting the same condition which I loose the hi's at about 2/3 throttle. It seems to get worse in time when unit is ran for about a half hour. When pushed to 3/4 throttle the right channel flat-lined (cut out), when turned down quick after this condition you hear a "click" and the channel comes back. I dont typically run it this hard but trying to diagnose the problem. Help wanted....

Julian: I apologize for exceeding your strict instructions of not exceeding 10:00 on the dial, please understand this was only due to performing "diagnostics" in trying to determine wtf...

my Sansui amp after many years of fine service started doing the same thing with the clicking, loosing volume then turning back on, first it was at about 2/3 volume while drumming when it first began, in time it was then a bit less, now it wont stay up over half volume prior to clicking off. Sounds like my Carver is getting tired ?


Any Idea at what it may cost to get re-furbished with new shiny parts hopefully not made in China ??

Thank you for you time Gentlemen
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mbskeam

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:29 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

check your speakers
got an ohm meter? if not.
swap the RT/LH chanels at the speaker hookups and see if the problem follows
Mbskeam


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jjptkd

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

$270 plus shipping @ Bob Carver's Audio Service for complete refurbishing and updates.

http://carverservice.com/carver_005.htm

If that's your second amp on the same set of speakers failing in the same way, I'd look at the speakers and make sure there's no shorted voice coil or any other problems. Did you run the 500 on your other set of speakers? You may want to run a different set of speakers with that amp to ensure its an "amp" issue and not a "speaker" issue before sending it anywhere for repair. If its always the same side failing, you could even swap speakers (left to right, right to left) to see if the problem follows the speaker or not.
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jjptkd

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Sorry Mike, must of post at the same time. #-o But yeah, isolate the problem as best you can then proceed with caution... 8-[ 8-[ 8)
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treitz3

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Doug wrote:I just noted on the front, it is indeed a 15 CB.

That's alright. The one thing you have to realize is that letters like that in the model number [in this case, the letters "CB"] can sometimes drastically change things. I had read from your original posts that you took the speaker level output [the only output it offers] from a TFM15 straight into another amplifier's line level inputs. THAT, you never want to do. Seeing as how you have the TFM15CB, it's all good. Line level output into line level input is always good, unless the impedance or voltages are too far off for compatibility.

From what it sounds like, your issue has already been diagnosed. You are clipping the amplifier at those extreme volumes. No amount of repair will help you to correct this. You might also be tripping a polyswitch within your speakers, which also explain why the top end is cutting out but I doubt that's the case because you are experiencing a "click", which is usually associated a protection circuit and relay within the amplifier. It's the relay you may hear clicking.

That said, troubleshooting over the internet can be hard so let's start from scratch and follow some of the advice already mentioned. First, you will need a digital or analog meter [DVM, for short]. Make sure that it can read ohms, or the resistance from the terminals at each speaker. Allow me to stop there, for without a DVM, we will have to troubleshoot using a different path. So, let's first make sure that you have a measurement tool [such as a DVM] to measure.

You do have one, right?
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kingman

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:52 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Proceed with caution....Danger, Danger Will Robinson!!!!!
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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Doug

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Proceed with caution....Danger, Danger Will Robinson!!!!!

LOL...

I do have an anolog ohm meter and I actually no how to use it....use to have an alternator/starter shop for about 12 years, should of never closed it up...another story.

I will check the speakers resistance from one to another, how much of a resistance deviation would denote a problem ? Also are you suggesting I unhook each speaker individually from the cross over and check or can I check at the back connectors and note an Issue?

On a side note to the gentleman inquiring if it is the same speakers for both amps they are not, these c v re's I bought from a retired officer which had them hooked up to a small Jensen stereo in which he stated he bought them new and appeared in very good condition (exterior wise). I figured they may not had seen the kind of abuse I seem to be putting them through...

I will keep checking and let you know. unfortunately I dont have any other speakers which will handle the load the 500 exhibits.

Nice to be able to speak to someone about the situation.
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treitz3

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Doug wrote: I have disconnected the tfm 15 and just ran the 500, I am still getting the same condition which I loose the hi's at about 2/3 throttle.

Hey Doug, let's just start with this one amplifier and the speakers you have it hooked up too. Just for clarity, could you tell us once more the exact amplifier model number and the speaker? Again, we will need the model number [to the best of your knowledge] of the speaker as well.

Just disconnect each speaker and ohm out the taps of the speaker inputs. Provide us with the results of each speaker. If the speaker has 4 taps [upper frequency and lower frequency], provide us with the ohms you read on the positive and negative of each set of taps. Keep in mind, you must take out the connectors [typically a cheap gold plated bent POS] between the upper and lower frequencies if there are 4 taps.

We'll go from there.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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helicopterpilotdoug

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

F1nut wrote:Ok, I understand a bit better now.

It seems that your CV's have a thermal reset device to protect the tweeters from blowing because of amp clipping. It is possible that the reset device has become hypersensitive from being tripped too often, but from judging by your comment about having the volume knob past halfway, I would say that you are clipping the amp and tripping the devices like they should. The solution in that case would be to not turn it up so high.

One thing I still don't get is why you are running two sets of different speakers together. That never results in good sound.

I think Jesse hit the nail on the head back on post number 5.
Interestingly when searching for specs on Cerwin Vega speakers, there is not much info available. Found the following specs for the RE-30's, although not sure how reliable they are.
Summary:
Freq 28 Hz - 20 kHz
Power 5 watts minimum 250 watts maximum
Sens 97 dB [ 1w / 1m ]
Normal Impedance 4 ohms
LF Driver 2" ????
Sub 12" cast aluminum frame
Mid 4" cone
Tweet 1" metallized mylar dome
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Weight 57 lbs.
Got a feeling the self resetting tweeter protection may be kicking in, causing the dropouts. Also, the 500X puts out 400 watts into 4ohms, so it's no wonder the tweeter protection is kicking in at the 3/4 volume level. Yeah, I think Jesse nailed it!
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treitz3

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Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:08 pm

Doug wrote: I have disconnected the tfm 15 and just ran the 500, I am still getting the same condition which I loose the hi's at about 2/3 throttle.


F1nut wrote: The solution in that case would be to not turn it up so high.

Exactly.

2/3rds throttle is extreme. Another question for Doug that I would like him to answer with detail is what source(s) for the music are you using when this occurs?

The CV's can handle much more than what's rated but it has to be clean. We all may know that but Doug [the OP] may not. Forgive me if I'm being a tad bit simplistic. I'm just trying to figure out what may be causing his issues. I will say this. Comparing a system to real drums in the same room and expecting the same impact and resolution is a pipe dream. Ain't gonna happen, no matter the cost.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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