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A500 Diagnoses ?

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Doug

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:37 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Comparing a system to real drums in the same room and expecting the same impact and resolution is a pipe dream


Not sure what you mean by "comparing to Drums" I just practice to loud rock music the hippies made for us and play along, (record copying) dueto a lack of formal band lessons in high school.

Ok I am using an older small Sirius tuner/radio, and my yamaha cassette deck, and of course my turn table, old pioneer. Turn table is not hooked up yet as I need to suspend or mount on a wall shelf.

We all may know that but Doug [the OP] may not.
you calling me Opie ?? LOL

I will check the resistance today.

One thing (as a newbie) I am having trouble rapping my head around is why the gentleman says or feels 4 speakers of two different makes cant sound good or compliment the others, I am really interested to better understand this. It just seems to me that with different tweeters, mids, bass and cabinets you have well in my case the TDL's are two ways with no mid. that you have more music than just from one set ? please pardon my ignorance....



Opie.
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:33 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

The same people say that even 2 pairs of the same speakers with the same power don't sound good together, which has not been my experience, to each their own I guess.
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treitz3

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Doug wrote:One thing (as a newbie) I am having trouble rapping my head around is why the gentleman says or feels 4 speakers of two different makes cant sound good or compliment the others, I am really interested to better understand this. It just seems to me that with different tweeters, mids, bass and cabinets you have well in my case the TDL's are two ways with no mid. that you have more music than just from one set ? please pardon my ignorance....
jjptkd wrote:The same people say that even 2 pairs of the same speakers with the same power don't sound good together, which has not been my experience, to each their own I guess.


I believe that would include me and that the gentleman you are referring to is F1nut's comment on more than two speakers for mains. I know first hand exactly what Jesse [F1nut] is talking about. This is something that I believe needs a little bit of further explanation. Years back, I had a system referred too as "Crackbaby". I called it this because it was an unconventional 2-channel setup. For a stint along my audio journey, I built this rig to the best that it could possibly sound and I think another forum member Mark [Radioeng2] said it best....and I quote, "It sounded better than it had the right too". He couldn't have been more correct. At that point in my audio journey, I was a frequency listener.

Knowing now what I didn't know then, I have to agree. Mr. Bob Carver himself taught me a valuable lesson at Carverfest one year. He asked me if I liked everything about my system that was featured at the event. I responded with the answer, "No". Long story short? When he asked why, I explained to him what it was I didn't like was the transfer of the image [explained in better detail down in the depths of the forum] when the singer or instrument did not change location within the sound stage but the end result of the sound to what hit your ears did.

He proceeded to tell me that what I was experiencing was the issue of lobing and that there was absolutely nothing I could do about this until I went back to a conventional system. That being a true 2-channel system. In other words, a system with only two mains [speakers].

That said, if you are not an image freak and you do not enjoy your stereo in the dedicated listening position, then this matters not one bit. Just enjoy the music and love life as you have been. If you do happen to have experienced the image and sound stage that a stereo system can and will produce [properly executed and set up] then this is a completely unacceptable situation that alters things that you have tried so hard to achieve.


treitz3 wrote:Comparing a system to real drums in the same room and expecting the same impact and resolution is a pipe dream

Doug wrote:Not sure what you mean by "comparing to Drums" I just practice to loud rock music the hippies made for us and play along, (record copying) due to a lack of formal band lessons in high school.

I apologize, I was under the impression that you were trying to duplicate [compare] the sound from your drums to your system. If I was under the incorrect assumption, please forgive me. I have met some folks that have tried to do just that and it ain't gonna happen.

Doug wrote:Ok I am using an older small Sirius tuner/radio, and my yamaha cassette deck, and of course my turn table, old pioneer. Turn table is not hooked up yet as I need to suspend or mount on a wall shelf.

Eh, at this point I do not suspect these as having anything to do with the issues you are experiencing. Not saying that I'm ruling them out but I doubt it.

We all may know that but Doug [the OP] may not.

Doug wrote: you calling me Opie ?? LOL

No, no, no. Oh, dear Lord gawd....please do not think like this. That is not what I am trying to portray, nor is it remotely even close to my intentions of what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying my best to help you figure out what is causing the issues you have. Nothing more, nothing less. I do hope you understand that I'm asking you questions to help me help you.

Doug wrote:I will check the resistance today.

Cool, we shall await the results and go from there. Thank you.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Doug

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:52 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Julian,

First of all I want to thank you for your kind words and probably more importantly your time. helping me learn which is the primary reason I am here.
moving right along...

Left speaker 4.3 ohms Right 4.2 Digital meter, I think we use to read it as thousands on an analog.

Other questions : not sure what the Hologram switch does ? or the dubbing ?

I had my computer hooked into my CD input and the Sirius radio hooked into the VCR input, is this ok ?

not sure I mentioned but the preamp is a CT 24

not sure about how the tape 1 tape 2 works ... 2 decks ??

Thanks.

Opie
Last edited by Doug on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

I like how you keep calling Treitz "Julian" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Its an inside joke that I don't even get. 8-[ 8-[ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Doug

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:07 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

couple other thoughts:

Someone in a previous post referred to a need for a clean line or signal or something, I am assuming they are talking about the power supply ?? I met a dude I was going to buy some drivers from, he told me a dedicated circuit to the amp (110 Volts) would clean it up significantly, is this a fact and could it improve my situation.

Also inspecting my amps internal organs, it is my opinion that by opening it up an inspecting the circuitry for corrosion at solder points, swollen capacitors etc. could reveal some what of a relative condition of the components. I have read that cleaned & re-soldered connectors is recommended for older stuff ??

Worrying about opening up a can of worms here but..... speaker wire ?? what gauge min. ??
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Doug

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:09 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

I like how you keep calling Treitz "Julian" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Its an inside joke that I don't even get. 8-[ 8-[ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


well it says "julian" wth ?
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

"Julian" is a character from "Trailer Park Boys" Great show/ movies! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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TNRabbit

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Post Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:41 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Doug, OP is Original Poster~

Since the resistance is equal on your speakers, we'll assume they're OK. Did you check the speaker wires to make sure there's not a stray "hair" touching anywhere?

If that all good, I think you may just be overdriving your speakers. It is, of course, still possible...and actually likely given it's age, that your amp is in need of a refresh. No real way to tell unless you out it on a test bench....
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helicopterpilotdoug

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Post Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:52 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Hey Doug,
Thanks for giving us the opportunity to get to know you so much better. From what you posted, sounds like you will fit in just perfectly here.

Like our resident Rabbit said, OP is short for original poster, and has nothing to do with that cute little red headed boy from NC.

treitz3, AKA Julian, is IMHO one of the most knowledgable people on this forum. His real name is Tom. I've been reading what Tom writes about his "journey" for quite awhile and enjoy reading, plus learn from, his posts. He and many of the other great members here will help you learn, and help you spend your money on Carver or Sunfire equipment. Watch out, or you too will soon come down with OCCD (Obsessive Carver Collecting Disorder). :lol:

Again, Welcome to the Forum \:D/
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treitz3

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Post Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:52 pm

Doug wrote:Someone in a previous post referred to a need for a clean line or signal or something, I am assuming they are talking about the power supply ?? I met a dude I was going to buy some drivers from, he told me a dedicated circuit to the amp (110 Volts) would clean it up significantly, is this a fact and could it improve my situation.

That was me and I was actually referring to a clean signal. We'll touch back on that one later on in the post. As far as clean power goes? Yes, a dedicated line will help to improve the end result. There is no doubt about that. That said, I do not believe that this is the source of the issues you are experiencing.

Doug wrote:Also inspecting my amps internal organs, it is my opinion that by opening it up an inspecting the circuitry for corrosion at solder points, swollen capacitors etc. could reveal some what of a relative condition of the components. I have read that cleaned & re-soldered connectors is recommended for older stuff ??
Opening a unit up may very well tell you that a cap is leaking and/or swollen or that a resistor may have been overheated, creating a burn spot on the circuit board. What it will not tell you is the health of a particular piece of gear or how the spec's may have varied from the original.

Doug wrote:Worrying about opening up a can of worms here but..... speaker wire ?? what gauge min. ??

Eh, I really don't want to start a debate here. I would just use what ever wire size you would like. The heavy gauge stranded copper wire did me well for years. I would suggest that you tin the ends with solder and possibly add banana clips to each of the ends. If you would like to explore more options, it can get quite complicated and expensive rather quickly and we'll be here whenever you want to start on that. For now, just use whatever sounds good to you.

Doug wrote:Left speaker 4.3 ohms Right 4.2 Digital meter, I think we use to read it as thousands on an analog.

I will have to concur with TNRabbit on this. The ohm rating for each speaker looks to be fine.

Doug wrote:Other questions : not sure what the Hologram switch does ? or the dubbing ?

While I do not know which piece of gear you are referring too when you speak of the hologram switch, I take it that you are referring to the Sonic Holography circuitry Bob implemented on some of his gear. What it offers is the enhancement of stereo imaging by introducing a delayed and equalized signal from the right channel at the left loudspeaker to cancel the signal from the right loudspeaker at the listener's left ear (and vice versa). Some folks love it, some folks hate it. You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not this is something that is pleasing to your ears. As for the dubbing, that has to do with the transfer of one medium to another. Back when this gear was built, it was a common thing to dub [or copy] one cassette tape to another.

Doug wrote:I had my computer hooked into my CD input and the Sirius radio hooked into the VCR input, is this ok ?
Using the VCR input is fine. Let me ask you this, when the speakers stop working, does this happen more so on the Sirius radio or the CDP? Also, when you play a CD....is this a copied CD or an original CD, such as one that you would purchase from a store?

Doug wrote:Not sure about how the tape 1 tape 2 works ... 2 decks ??

You got it. Since it looks like you do not have 2 tape decks, you can use the tape 2 input as an additional input from another line level source, such as a CDP.

Oh, thank you for the kind words helicopterpilotdoug. That was very nice of you to say.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Doug

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Post Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

[quote]OCCD (Obsessive Carver Collecting Disorder).
[/quote

This dissorder you speak of, how will I know? but more importantly how do I keep my wife from knowing I have it ?
865 Construction 404.jpg
its only rock & roll but I like it !
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Doug, you might have missed these questions but these specifically relate to finding out the answer(s) as to why your speakers keep cutting out. Allow me to re-post them...

Let me ask you this, when the speakers stop working, does this happen more so on the Sirius radio or the CDP? Also, when you play a CD....is this a copied CD or an original CD, such as one that you would purchase from a store?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Doug

Newbie

Posts: 21

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:20 pm

Post Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:58 pm

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Hi Tom,

It was the Sirius, I don't have a cd player at present and have used my comp. I only experienced the trouble once and first noticed trouble when I used the comp. It was a cd from a store. One thing however I had the volume controls on the back of the amp turned down a bit and thought that mite have been a factor, so I turned them back to max output. Have not tried it with my comp since and then noted it with the Sirius tuner.
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jjptkd

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Post Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:06 am

Re: A500 Diagnoses ?

Actually that's one thing I've stated here in the past about the a500x, that at higher volumes the upper end drops off, that's the whole reason I have a replacement TFM-45 sitting here for my brother when I visit him in March.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15438&p=164484&hilit=met+the+man#p164484
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