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Turn Table cables...?

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MRHP

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:24 pm

Turn Table cables...?

My Denon TT has what looks like 1970 lamp cord for a plug in, more on that later. For now I want to know about "low capacitance" rca cables.

How and why are they different than a standard rca cable. I have heard to keep them fairly short within reason for better sound quality. Thinking about up grading of corse.

Also do the new highend tables come with female rca's ready to plug a cable into or do they mostly come pre cabled. Discuss! :D
TFM-75 serial #0001
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A Lightstar or two
Cherry/260's
Carver 490t
Sunfire Tube preamp
ProJect TT Tube preamp
DENON DP-62L TurnTable
Dual CS5000 Turn Table
DQ-20's
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
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kingman

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:37 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

My Technics SL-QD 35 has connectors and I use the Carveraudio interconnects. Some turntables do not offer that choice. You would have to modify the table to upgrade.
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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Chauss

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:08 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

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Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
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Snoop65

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

All the high end tables I know of have female RCA'S. Yes better cables will make a difference. Beware of Chauss, he's about to lead you down another dark path!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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Chauss

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:48 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Snoop65 wrote:All the high end tables I know of have female RCA'S. Yes better cables will make a difference. Beware of Chauss, he's about to lead you down another dark path!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Just lighting the path Snoop! :D
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Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
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MRHP

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Post Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

This wont be as addictive as toobs will it? :shock:

Here is some interesting reading on low capacitance wire:

This article outlines why higher data speeds, longer distances, "balanced circuits" and electrically "noisy" environments often require cables with enhanced performance characteristics.



Data Pulses Through Cable



Digital data in a cable is a complex stream of ultra-fast, precise voltage variations or pulses. The pulses form a language like Morse code that computer chips and integrated circuits can understand and manipulate. The biggest difference between yesterday's Morse code and today's computer data is speed. Morse code pulses ran at about 3 or 4 per second and most modern local area networks (LANs) operate at speeds up to 100 Mbps (100,000,000 bits per second). However, some are implementing Gigabit Ethernet (1000 Base T) which operates at 1000 Mbps.




High speed data pulses degrade or deteriorate when they are passed through any cable. Both the height of the pulse and the shape of the pulse change dramatically, and the amount of deterioration depends on the data rate, cable length, and cable electrical characteristics. If the output signal degrades too much, the computer system won't recognize the data or will record false information. The same cable that works in short lengths may prove to be inadequate if used in longer lengths or at higher data speeds. The chart below illustrates the difference between an "input" chain of pulses and the "output" after traveling through a length of cable. The output has a much different shape and less magnitude.



The Importance of Capacitance



Cable capacitance is often the most critical electrical parameter when high speed data is transmitted. A high capacitance cable slows down the voltage rise time and decay time for each pulse, effectively distorting the data. The output signals begin to look like "saw-teeth" rather than the ideal "square wave" input. A lower capacitance cable always performs better with high speed data, providing less distortion. Low capacitance cables maintain the required wave shape and minimize possible data errors. For a more detailed discussion of electrical cable characteristics and specifically how cable capacitance is controlled, please refer to the Technology Briefs article entitled "Why is cable capacitance important for electronic applications?"



Special Low Capacitance Applications



Certain equipment systems and data processing environments require more exotic cable than Quabbin Wire's standard low caps. EIA (Electronic Industries Association) RS-422 applications are one example. This standard defines equipment interconnections that use "balanced circuits" which require pairs of conductors that are isolated with their own grounding circuits. Low cap constructions with individually shielded pairs are often required.




Another application that may require different low cap cables is an electrically noisy environment, such as a typical factory floor. Large motors, high voltages and other high energy devices create severe electrical and magnetic fields that can interfere with sensitive digital data. For this reason, many computer aided design and computer aided manufacturing (CAD/CAM) systems use double shielded low capacitance cables for interconnection. These cables have an aluminum/polyester tape shield combined with a tinned copper braided shield. This combination provides both 100% shield coverage and excellent shielding effectiveness.




System designers must also consider the speed at which electronic signals transmit or propagate through the cable. High speed data that must travel longer distances can emerge unrecognizable at the output end. In these instances, cables with foam insulations are often specified. Quabbin Wire's standard low cap cables use solid polyethylene insulation that has a velocity of propagation of 66%. This means that an electronic pulse travels through the cable at 66% of the speed of light. If this is not fast enough for the application, then foam polypropylene insulated low cap cables may be used. They propagate data signals at 78% velocity and have less signal distortion.



What Does Quabbin Wire Offer?



In summary, Quabbin Wire's standard low capacitance cables are an excellent choice for most high speed data applications; however, certain environments or computer systems require enhanced low cap constructions. For this reason, Quabbin Wire manufactures and stocks a variety of double shielded and foamed insulation (high velocity) constructions. To view a range of specially designed low capacitance cables, check the following cable designs found in Quabbin Wire's catalog:







P/N

Description

Capacitance

Application



8606

3 pair 24 AWG, pairs shielded

12.5 pF/ft

RS 422



8312

6 pair 24 AWG, double overall shield

12.8 pF/ft

CAD/CAM
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black serial #0001
A Lightstar or two
Cherry/260's
Carver 490t
Sunfire Tube preamp
ProJect TT Tube preamp
DENON DP-62L TurnTable
Dual CS5000 Turn Table
DQ-20's
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
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helicopterpilotdoug

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Post Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:26 am

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Magnetic phono cartridges are sensitive to capacitance. If the capacitance in the system is too high, sound quality can start to degrade. Everything in the signal path adds to the capacitance and that includes the interconnects. Higher capacitance can roll off the top end with phono carts. Your preamp circuit likely has added capacitance in it too. IMHO cartridge makers design their carts knowing that there is capacitance in the path between the pickup and the preamp, so the cartridge is built to expect some capacitance in the circuit. The right amount will get the cartridge sounding as well as it can. Too little however can be just as bad as too much. You should be able to find out from the cartridge maker how much capacitance the cartridge needs to sound good. The total capacitance will be what is in the tonearm, the interconnects and the added amount in the preamp. To make it sound it's best, you need to know what your cartridge expects and what is in your pre amp already.

Here is the turntable interconnect cable we make. It's made to be as ideal as possible with most systems. The cables are shielded, and the shield is connected at only one end to drain any noise it picks up, without being in the signal path. The cable also includes a separate ground wire, which needs to be connected to the turntable and to the pre amp.
Attachments
TurnTableICBrochure.jpg
Sunfire: Theater Grand IV, Cinema Grand Signature.
Carver: TFM-45, PST-24 Cassette, Extra Carver Gear: CT-6, C-11 (S/N 00001).
Polk Audio: Mains SRS 2.1TL, Center CSiA6, Surrounds FXiA6 and FXiA4, Sub DSW MicroPro 1000, Extra Speakers SDA 2A, SDA 2Btl, Monitor 10A.
Turntable: Dual CS 714Q
Bluray/SACD: Oppo BDP 83SE
CD: Sony 330 300 Disk changer

http://www.douglasconnection.com
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:47 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Bold, elegant and pefect? :-k

Figured Rabbit would of been all over that... :-s :-s
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OconeeOrange

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Post Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Upgrading yor TT with $$ maybe not the way to go.
Put your money into a new TT if you are headed into that.
A low end Musical Hall , Rega, etc will exceed any upgrades you make to the Dennon at around the same cost.

All real TT guys I know have a TT just to rock out with the records from their youth or from a yard sale, records they would never play on their main TT but still are interesting and can bring down the house.

Nothing wrong with having two TTs.

PM speakerlabfan
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Snoop65

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Post Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

OconeeOrange wrote:Upgrading yor TT with $$ maybe not the way to go.
Put your money into a new TT if you are headed into that.
A low end Musical Hall , Rega, etc will exceed any upgrades you make to the Dennon at around the same cost.

All real TT guys I know have a TT just to rock out with the records from their youth or from a yard sale, records they would never play on their main TT but still are interesting and can bring down the house.

Nothing wrong with having two TTs.

PM speakerlabfan

I have to agree with Bill. The newer tables out there are really nice for the money. Really good bang for the buck with excellent stock tone arms. Add Project tables to that list.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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TNRabbit

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Post Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:25 am

Re: Turn Table cables...?

jjptkd wrote:Bold, elegant and pefect? :-k

Figured Rabbit would of been all over that... :-s :-s


Rabbit wasn't reading this thread~
TNRabbit
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Chauss

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Post Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:51 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?



...............Then LOMC cart and good step up transformer.....<-------you will need all this stuff anyways if you buy a quality new table. :D
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Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
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Snoop65

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Post Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Chauss wrote:

...............Then LOMC cart and good step up transformer.....<-------you will need all this stuff anyways if you buy a quality new table. :D

He's there already Dan, Eric has a nice tube phono preamp. There's that "toob" word again! :D
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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MRHP

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Post Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:26 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

Thanks for all the info opinions and tips. Im also looking for a good platter mat....any suggestions? Mne works fine but looks ugly, also Im wanting to get one thats thin to correct tone arm geometry.
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black serial #0001
A Lightstar or two
Cherry/260's
Carver 490t
Sunfire Tube preamp
ProJect TT Tube preamp
DENON DP-62L TurnTable
Dual CS5000 Turn Table
DQ-20's
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
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Snoop65

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Post Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Turn Table cables...?

MRHP wrote:Thanks for all the info opinions and tips. Im also looking for a good platter mat....any suggestions? Mne works fine but looks ugly, also Im wanting to get one thats thin to correct tone arm geometry.

I'm using the stock felt mat. What kind of mat do you have now? I recommend trying a record clamp. I use a J A Mitchell, inexpensive and effective.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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