Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest amp

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angelod307
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by angelod307 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:28 pm

Ones with the fuse, no go. Iec standard socket i have.
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Magnaryder
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by Magnaryder » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:05 pm

angelod307 wrote:Ones with the fuse, no go. Iec standard socket i have.
I got one with the fuse but it doesn't fit the elongated slot...Beavis on/"he said slot" heheheheh

thanks anyway

ray
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by stevek » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:12 am

radioeng2 wrote:Hi Martin,
If you're referring to installing some of the "full size" big iron from Edcor, forget it. First, it won't fit on the chassis. Second, it's not needed. Good iron for the EL84 is the Dynaco iron for the ST35 anyway. It'll cost you about what two of the amps cost us probably.
Mark
radioeng2,
Why do you say "it's not needed" ?

Martin1970 is talking about changing the XPP10-8-8K, with a frequency response of 70hz - 18khz, to another transformer with a frequency response of ~20hz-20khz. Are you saying that going from a 70hz-18khz OPT to a 20hz-20khz OPT would be inaudible?
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radioeng2
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by radioeng2 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:16 am

Hey Ray,

Measure the opening that's cut in the chassis. I've got at least one or maybe two styles of inlet blocks with fuses. I think they're bigger, but lets check. If one happens to fit, I'll drop one to you. If not, I'll help watch for one that does fit.

Mark
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by radioeng2 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:42 am

stevek wrote: radioeng2,
Why do you say "it's not needed" ?

Martin1970 is talking about changing the XPP10-8-8K, with a frequency response of 70hz - 18khz, to another transformer with a frequency response of ~20hz-20khz. Are you saying that going from a 70hz-18khz OPT to a 20hz-20khz OPT would be inaudible?
Steve
Good Morning Steve,

No, I wouldn't say inaudible in all cases. Just not much change in many uses. That's proven by all the different speakers these have been hooked up to, including professional reviewer systems, and no one has been sent running from lack of bottom end.

The little guys being spec'd at 70hz doesn't mean output goes away at that freq. It means as you go lower in freq and higher in output, that the core saturates quicker and distortion will rise as you push harder. So if you're running a reasonably eff speaker at sane levels, the change to a bigger transformer will have little effect on real listening. Little, not none.

Again, the right tool for the job is key. The single ended designs running single digit watts need very efficient speakers. These small PP ones need something somewhat reasonable. The big tube PP's can do about all but the real punishing load type speakers. But all those rule of thumbs are bendable depending on your usage. So guys listening without great loudness can get away with less reasonable speakers and do fine. Very low end distortion, real world usage, isn't our goal but as it starts to creap up in level is much less noticable than far less amounts up into the voice range. That's another reason it's not been a complaint up until being slammed with steady state insane level tones. Not music.

And in the case of these amps, going back and trying to retro on a fuller sized OT would be a big problem. So then you think about putting it on a new chassis WITH enough room and no cutouts that won't match? Well then you're just the cost of the power transformer away from building a new amp and leaving alone the original.

Steve I've got a whole slew of different EL84 amps around. Parts differences, voltage differences in them yield far more changes in sonics between them than just simply the output iron. While they'd all bench differently, the low end would hold up better on the bigger iron, but the other differences are a bigger deal and are more noticable than just low end distortion.

Mark
Last edited by radioeng2 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by radioeng2 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:52 am

Also, 20hz to 20khz is a fantasy number. It's our target kind of thing. You'd be surprised how little flatness of response matters. Let alone the total bandwidth.

Amazing music can happen from a system without touching the extremes and the real world room alters any electronics flatness of response. That's not to say you don't target greater bandwidth in design as desirable. It's all a question of how the end result winds up as a listener carrying meaningful information and impact.

Idealism has to tempered with reality. If you don't strive for a balance between them, then you tend to wind up with a system you'd rather turn off and walk away from rather than play another album from. I place much greater value in being able to move Bob to the point of having tears on his face at the end of a song rather than any bench test number.

Mark

PS...sorry Angelo we managed to go so far of topic.
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by frenchguy » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:59 am

" I place much greater value in being able to move Bob to the point of having tears on his face at the end of a song rather than any bench test number."


Well said Mark!! =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by Zoot Horn » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:58 am

The tone man,, it is all about the tone. ,,,, enjoy

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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by tinpan » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:05 pm

I read that when you emailed me Rabbit. All I can say is, I've had no issues with low end on my speakers. I don't think anyone else did either that heard them.
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by Magnaryder » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:30 pm

stevek wrote:
radioeng2 wrote:Hi Martin,
If you're referring to installing some of the "full size" big iron from Edcor, forget it. First, it won't fit on the chassis. Second, it's not needed. Good iron for the EL84 is the Dynaco iron for the ST35 anyway. It'll cost you about what two of the amps cost us probably.
Mark
radioeng2,
Why do you say "it's not needed" ?

Martin1970 is talking about changing the XPP10-8-8K, with a frequency response of 70hz - 18khz, to another transformer with a frequency response of ~20hz-20khz. Are you saying that going from a 70hz-18khz OPT to a 20hz-20khz OPT would be inaudible?
Steve
Steve I read the thread running on the other forum and noticed RobertR mentioned your system had so little bass while we were at the Fest. Why didn't you ask Bob and get Greg to put it on his gear there. Bet Bob could have answered any questions you had there in Bryson City.

ray
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by stevek » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:01 am

Magnaryder wrote: Steve I read the thread running on the other forum and noticed RobertR mentioned your system had so little bass while we were at the Fest. Why didn't you ask Bob and get Greg to put it on his gear there. Bet Bob could have answered any questions you had there in Bryson City.
ray
Ray,
I didn't have a system at this years fest. Robert and I were playing music on the cabin's system out of our laptops. Robert meant that the songs on my playlists have very little bass. I have been listening to a lot of female vocals recently Easy Listening and Jazz etc.

I didn't hear anything off with the bass on the VTA 20, the bass sounded comparable to SS amps that I use in my system. This was true even after I saw the waveforms on the bench with distortion beginning at ~50hz, contrary to expectation bias. (even with hard rock and metal source material) So I agree with radioeng2's point although I would still like to hear/see an experiment upgrading one channel with an OPT with a larger core.
Steve
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by Magnaryder » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:57 am

stevek wrote:
Magnaryder wrote: Steve I read the thread running on the other forum and noticed RobertR mentioned your system had so little bass while we were at the Fest. Why didn't you ask Bob and get Greg to put it on his gear there. Bet Bob could have answered any questions you had there in Bryson City.
ray
Ray,
I didn't have a system at this years fest. Robert and I were playing music on the cabin's system out of our laptops. Robert meant that the songs on my playlists have very little bass. I have been listening to a lot of female vocals recently Easy Listening and Jazz etc.

I didn't hear anything off with the bass on the VTA 20, the bass sounded comparable to SS amps that I use in my system. This was true even after I saw the waveforms on the bench with distortion beginning at ~50hz, contrary to expectation bias. (even with hard rock and metal source material) So I agree with radioeng2's point although I would still like to hear/see an experiment upgrading one channel with an OPT with a larger core.
Steve


Brother I can dig it. My mother gave me my father's record collection and I'm rediscovering Nancy Wilson, Ella Fitzgerald, Laney Kazan Anita Wilson and others. I will admit I've been to Edcor's web page to price 'other' OPT iron But after reading Mark's response I'm not certain it would be worth the dosh considering what I've already gained and what we're hearing here in sunny Bucyrus. Fresh out of the box a pair of bridged CF amps blew a big Cary amp out of the water. I can tell you the Cary owner was shocked. He made the call. That's how good they sound. I've modded just about everything you can on a CF amp but it doesn't change the fact that these little guys are really musical from the start. I heard them on Angelo's Cinema Ribbons and I thought they sounded fine. With only 20 watts the Cinema Ribbon don't have the power they need to be really dynamic, but like I said, they didn't sound too bad.


I haven't heard a production VTA 20. I only have my CF amps to reference anything I observed. Maybe next CarverFest. I'm holding out for a phono pre or simple line-pre project that matches our CF amps. That would be way kewl.

ray
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by stevek » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:52 am

Magnaryder wrote: I haven't heard a production VTA 20. I only have my CF amps to reference anything I observed. Maybe next CarverFest. I'm holding out for a phono pre or simple line-pre project that matches our CF amps. That would be way kewl.
ray
Ray,
I like my SS amp better than the VTA 20 so I sold the VTA. I also didn't want to take a pristine VTA 20 and hack it up to fit a different OPT.

I didn't think that the VTA 20 sounded as good as the Carverfest amp I heard at the fest, so I was a bit disappointed. Of course at the time I didn't realize that George had upgraded components in his amp. So I wasn't hearing a 'stock' Carverfest amp.
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by radioeng2 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:54 am

Magnaryder wrote: I haven't heard a production VTA 20.
Ray,

Actually you have heard production VTA20's if you made it up and heard Eric's running the baby Dahlquest this year.

Well....he's rolled tubes and used nice wires etc. And had the sun coming thru the windows. None of which will have changed bench numbers, just made it sound nicer. S-w-e-e-t little rig all except for that horribly distorted bass. :^o

Mark

PS...Steve, no doubt some nice iron would be a bit detectable in comparing to stock. Listening is a powerful tool! Might have to convert your listening habits to that new form of music, easy listening-jazz-rap to tell though... :-& :shock:
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Re: Is the anyone that is missing anyparts to the carverfest

Post by Magnaryder » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:25 pm

radioeng2 wrote:
Magnaryder wrote: I haven't heard a production VTA 20.
Ray,

Actually you have heard production VTA20's if you made it up and heard Eric's running the baby Dahlquest this year.


Well....he's rolled tubes and used nice wires etc. And had the sun coming thru the windows. None of which will have changed bench numbers, just made it sound nicer. S-w-e-e-t little rig all except for that horribly distorted bass. :^o

Mark
PS...Steve, no doubt some nice iron would be a bit detectable in comparing to stock. Listening is a powerful tool! Might have to convert your listening habits to that new form of music, easy listening-jazz-rap to tell though... :-& :shock:
I don't think I got up there. At least not that I remember...I was on vacation afterall

ray
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