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LP vs RECORDED CD

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Snoop65

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Post Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:46 pm

LP vs RECORDED CD

Rabbit (yeah you Gary!) has often spoke about a cd recorded from a LP sounding exactly the same so I decided to give this a try. I have been making recorded cd's for years for my car or to transfer to my pc but never thought to listen to one against the original lp. I have a Alesis ML-9600 disk recorder that does four sample rates (44.1,48,88.2 and 96khz) , will do Redbook or CD24 and has a built in hard drive. I will making recordings at each sample rate and listen to them against the original lp. I will be doing this on the secret system so I will be able to run lp and digital recording at the same time and fade back and forth between the two, no listening to one then the other.
Ok Lp vs. Recorded CD part one. I kept this first go round simple and only did two tracks recorded at 44.1khz and 16-bit. The first cut was "Captain of her heart" by Double, I chose this because of it's simple but big airy sound and excellent detail. The second track was " Don't let me be misunderstood" by Santa Esmeralda, I chose this one because of the excellent acoustic guitar work, the horn section and there's a lot going on in this track but great detail. I did this recording using my Alesis ML-9600 digital recorder hooked up to my "secret system" which includes my Urei 1620 music mixer, Carver PM-600, Denon DP-DJ101 turntables, Stanton Groovemaster cartridges, Urei 5547 eq's(not in the recording loop) and Cerwin Vega 39P's upgraded with JBL woofers and tweeters.
At first listen, I have to agree with Rabbit they sound the same. I played the cd first then went back to the lp. Then I spent some time with the tracks (over a hour). I started to feel there were differences so what I did was start the record and the cd at the same time so they were playing together and switched back and forth between the two. On "Captain of her heart" the sound didn't seem quite as transparent. The piano notes were not quite as clean and the highs seemed to have a hard edge, not smooth like on the lp. This was actually a small difference but it was there. Moving over to "Don't let me be misunderstood, the difference stood out more. The horn section was not as "up front" on the cd as on the lp. The horns on this record are loud, bright and in your face, they get pushed back on the cd. While still sounding good the cd just didn't have the life of the LP. The acoustic guitars were pretty good on the cd, but the lp had a more real sound. So much for round one.
Next up I will do some recordings at 16-bit and 48khz, then 88.2khz , then 96khz, go to 20-bit at all four sample rates and finally 24-bit at all four sample rates. Then I will move the Alesis ML-9600 from my secret system to my main system and start all over. My main system should be a lot more "revealing". I will also listen to the cd's on my Carver SD/A-390t. Stay tuned!!!
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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MRHP

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Post Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Nice write up Snoop and interesting that you have a setup that allows you to hear it real time one against the other.

Back in my car stereo days I always ran a highend cassette deck in the car and recorded off of cd or lp onto a Maxell high quality cassette. I figured if my collection got stolen It would be $2.00 tapes instead of expensive cd's.
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Magnaryder

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:34 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Vance, will the 390t play burnt CDs? My 490t would not.

Have you verified there isn't any eq work done passively in either unit that might explain those changes?

BTW, great experiment man!! Keep us posted!!

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

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Snoop65

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Magnaryder wrote:Vance, will the 390t play burnt CDs? My 490t would not.

Have you verified there isn't any eq work done passively in either unit that might explain those changes?

BTW, great experiment man!! Keep us posted!!

ray

Nope no eq in the path Ray. As for the 390t playing burnt CD's , they will play WMA files not MP3. Were the CD's you burned using MP3 files?
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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kingman

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:25 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Snoop65 wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:Vance, will the 390t play burnt CDs? My 490t would not.

Have you verified there isn't any eq work done passively in either unit that might explain those changes?

BTW, great experiment man!! Keep us posted!!

ray

Nope no eq in the path Ray. As for the 390t playing burnt CD's , they will play WMA files not MP3. Were the CD's you burned using MP3 files?

Vance....my 390t plays MP3 file burns...???
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Snoop65

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

kingman wrote:
Snoop65 wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:Vance, will the 390t play burnt CDs? My 490t would not.

Have you verified there isn't any eq work done passively in either unit that might explain those changes?

BTW, great experiment man!! Keep us posted!!

ray

Nope no eq in the path Ray. As for the 390t playing burnt CD's , they will play WMA files not MP3. Were the CD's you burned using MP3 files?

Vance....my 390t plays MP3 file burns...???

Really? Mine won't. I made a CD with WMA and MP3 and it would skip over the MP3 tracks.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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Chauss

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:17 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Snoop65 wrote:Really? Mine won't. I made a CD with WMA and MP3 and it would skip over the MP3 tracks.


It probably did not like your choice in music genre on those tracks... :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Magnaryder

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

My 490t wouldn't play burns from my PC or my Tascam. All were CD copies of CDs. No MP3s or any other kind of file straight CD.

Hmmm makes me wonder what I did wrong. Hell it wouldn't play a copy of Revolver Jesse made and brought to the last Fest he attended.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Snoop65

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:37 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Chauss wrote:
Snoop65 wrote:Really? Mine won't. I made a CD with WMA and MP3 and it would skip over the MP3 tracks.


It probably did not like your choice in music genre on those tracks... :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I hate you Dan!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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Snoop65

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:42 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Magnaryder wrote:My 490t wouldn't play burns from my PC or my Tascam. All were CD copies of CDs. No MP3s or any other kind of file straight CD.

Hmmm makes me wonder what I did wrong. Hell it wouldn't play a copy of Revolver Jesse made and brought to the last Fest he attended.

ray

That is strange. I wonder if it is a thing of one model being newer than the other and the newer ones can play PC made or copied CD's. time to check serial numbers for manufacture dates?
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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MRHP

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

Chauss wrote:
Snoop65 wrote:Really? Mine won't. I made a CD with WMA and MP3 and it would skip over the MP3 tracks.


It probably did not like your choice in music genre on those tracks... :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:


First of all....that was funny :lol: :lol: :lol:

I remember this coming up at CF13, I think it was FrankieD and ZootHorn over at my cabin with some burned disc's and they asked if my 490t would play them. We tried it and it did fine. The 490t has to think about Marks CF12 cd (as in it sets there for about one solid minute before it begins to play) but his CF13 plays perfect. My 490t serial number is 929CO852661. FYI my original 490t that was purchased with my TFM-75 says Februaury 1991 and also has a serial number starting with 91 and the insided looked a little different with none of the plastic guards that say Danger High Voltage etc.

I remember one of the Toms saying the early ones has a better cartridge/disc holder assembly??? Not sure but something to that effect.
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
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Baby Black serial #0002
Bone Stock Lightstar
Vintage Hi-Fi modified Lightstar
Cherry/260's
Carver 490t
Sunfire Tube preamp
ProJect TT Tube preamp
DENON DP-62L TurnTable
DQ-20's
Douglas Cables
More Douglas cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
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F1nut

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Post Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

I have a good friend that sent me some CDR's he made from the LP's, says they sound just like the LP's. He was right, same damn surface noise, same damn pops and clicks.
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Zoot Horn

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Post Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:54 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

No milk for cereal this morning,,eh sunshine. 8)
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F1nut

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Post Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: LP vs RECORDED CD

LOL....not only did I have milk, I had OJ as well.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

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