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Mr. M-500t
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
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Post by Mr. M-500t » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:06 pm

So, I take it that you had to pay for everything huh ?

frankieD
Frankie The Mouth
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I paid it all

Post by frankieD » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:20 pm

Yes, I paid for the amp, shipping, shipping to Roland and repair and last shipping back to me. The seller assured me three separate times in separate emails that he would refund. It didn't phase e-bay. The problem (leaking caps) was intermittant according to Roland and I don't honestly know if Dave Pettee knew tha amp had a short time to go or not. I do know he said he would refund the money and didn't. Roland said he ahd to wait months to get paid from Dave Pettee and I decided to "protect" myself through e-bay. I won't count on them again. Dave's ebay name is dav1hei2 and I don't recommend doing business with him.

Thanks for the interest Mr. m-500t.

frankieD
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I paid it all

Post by frankieD » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:22 pm

Yes, I paid for the amp, shipping, shipping to Roland and repair and last shipping back to me. The seller assured me three separate times in separate emails that he would refund. It didn't phase e-bay. The problem (leaking caps) was intermittent according to Roland and I don't honestly know if Dave Pettee knew the amp had a short time to go or not. I do know he said he would refund the money and didn't. Roland said he had to wait months to get paid from Dave Pettee and I decided to "protect" myself through e-bay. I won't count on them again. Dave's e-bay name is dav1hei2 and I don't recommend doing business with him.

Thanks for the interest Mr. m-500t.

Mr. M-500t
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post by Mr. M-500t » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:24 pm

I'm sorry to hear that frankieD,
Thanks for the advisement. O:)

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treitz3
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Post by treitz3 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:49 pm

I keep hoping that e-pray gets their act together, but I keep hearing of issues just like this one. Thanks for the update. I'm sorry for you that you had to wait so long for resolution with this.

Roland sounds like he was quite patient with this ordeal....kudos to him! I know of some shops that sell your gear, regardless of the issue either 30 or 60 days out.

Remember, Bill got screwed by the same guy. He's obviously very dishonest.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

frankieD
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continuing saga of the tfm-42

Post by frankieD » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:09 pm

I had an occaision to call ebay for some bogus email I received. While talkng to the girl I told her of my experience and she told me to appeal it.

I did. Get this, after two weeks ebay sent me an email saying I would receive $275.00 credit "IF" I return the item to the seller in it's original condition. Those of you who don't know I was taken for a ride since the seller told me to have the amp repaired (by Roland specifically) and that he (the seller) would refund my money to Roland. That never happened so I ended up paying Roland for the amp repair (well worth it).

Now that I've spent a total of $600.00, ebay wants to give me $275.00 for the tfm-42. Ebay has copies of all the emails between me and the seller so they know what happened. I wonder if they read anything. Probably not unless thay get paid for it.

At least the amp works beyond my expectations.

Frank.

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treitz3
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Post by treitz3 » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:30 pm

It would be nice if E-pray had a feedback rating. I wonder what it would be. :-k

Good thing is you have a working amp repaired professionally!
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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DaveS
The OverLord of CarverAudio.com
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Post by DaveS » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:12 pm

HOW DO I GET CAUGHT UP IN THESE THINGS?, I`ve been good.

Dave;

Please rescind the comments made by FRANKIED

He wrote:

Well I waited to give feedback until the amp arrived & I set it up. It really brought the als silvers alive. I was very happy. The tfm42 sounded pretty much the same as my m500t but it didn't "run out of steam" and that made a real difference. The seller had been nice and even offered money back guarantee so I gave him a nice positive feedback. Within and hour after I sent it, the amp died. I sent him an email to see what he will do for me. I am waiting. I'll let you know what happens. The seller is "day1hei2" in case anyone else has had dealings with him. Let me know what your experience was.

Please all remove comments made by FRANKIED with respect to this sale. Obviously, there's a dispute
(the TFM42 has since been repaired at FRANKIED's expense).







Frank;

I'm asking Carveraudio.com to rescind your comments, which run counter to the
web sites charter (e.g. Slander).

This isn't the place to settle a dispute.

The last communication I received was pay pal reversed the disputed claim (in your favor)
and the unit would be returned. Obviously, this isn't pratical, and on balance, you have a
the rebuild unit at a cost basis of $600, well worth the price in spite of the hassle, which
we're not intentional.

I haven't forgotten the amount to be refunded, but posting negative comments with my full name
and creating a pay pal dispute will only hinder the your refund.


Thanks,




-----Original Message-----
From: dpettee@aol.com
To: Dave@Carveraudio.com
Sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:54 am
Subject: Bulletin Board Comments



Apprently, FRANKIED took the liberty of mentioning Hi Tech Audio in the context of this
dispute. Apparently, comments regarding my prior payment history with HTA appears on
the public internet. re "Months to get paid..."

I doubt the credit laws permit these types of disclosures, at a minimum,
thanks alot for taking sides and going on the record with respect to my payment
history with HTA.

Apparently, FRANKIED feels it's in everyone interest to air "dirty laundry" over his $275
purchase of 15 year old audio equipment.

I'm not denying FRANKIED's right to due diligence, or claim, but these posts are over the top.

Please ask Carver audio.com to remove





I will not require a Carver Audio account.

Thanks,



-----Original Message-----
From: dave@carveraudio.com
To: dpettee@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:54 am
Subject: Welcome to CarverAudio.com Forums



Welcome to CarverAudio.com Forums

In compliance with the COPPA act your account is currently inactive.

Please print this message out and have your parent or guardian sign and date it.
Then fax it to:



OR mail it to:


Dave,

I`ve read all the posts in question. I have a couple for you , Have you refunded the $275 to Frankied or sent payment for the repairs to Rolland? If not, I`m sure when you do (or if) all this will go away.

As far as slander goes, if you haven`t sent a refund, there is none. This is not to be considered as taking sides and if you want the posts to be removed you should contact Frankied, they are his posts not mine.

It is not up to me to be a censor shit???..... Awww Hell No They Didin't !!!! .... in such matters i.e. the forum being and open and free exchange of information and views. I will however be more than happy to post your e-mails to show a balance on the subject.

I have activated your account so you can post your side if you like.

Thanx,
DaveS

Mr. M-500t
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
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Post by Mr. M-500t » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:26 pm

Daves is a "Smooth Operator" \:D/

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treitz3
"Julian"
"Julian"
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Post by treitz3 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:29 pm

WAAAAAAAAAAAA!

We're waiting dav1hei2 to hear from you................... :-k

From one brother looking out for another brother. Are you going to make proper amends?

Or are we going to keep Red Flagging your account? If E-disaster ain't gonna do it....WE will!
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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DaveS
The OverLord of CarverAudio.com
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Post by DaveS » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:49 pm

That would amount to extortion, although I don't deny a refund claim
(you still ended up with a great deal).

To suggest otherwise is a mistake - removing the post Sine qua non of payment
will create a bigger problem.

I don't like your approach. Suggest removing the post immediately.




-----Original Message-----
From: <frankiedandm>
To: dpettee@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 4:18 pm
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board Comments


Dave, the quickest way to end this is to send me the money

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maddmaxxx
(Pair of Silver 9t's)
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-RIP OFF = DPETTEE@aol. = RIP OFF

Post by maddmaxxx » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:09 pm

-dpetite is a pantywaste and a fleet'in RIP-OFF.....i'll remember and spread that name !. until mr frankied gets compensation for time/monies....what a joke !...../mx

-hey petite little boy, you want my eprey ID ?......
-* © Küül ®™ /mx...
-Too hip gotta book
-"Don't BAN me Bro!"...el/doro

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maddmaxxx
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Post by maddmaxxx » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:28 pm

-WARNING......DAVE PETTEE ...EBAY ID=dav1hei2......will be posted in the STICKY POST , 'BUYERS AND SELLERS BEWARE', as a LIAR and for the ENTIRE carver Forum to read and i will not retract UNTIL mr frankied is reimbursed to satisfaction !

-WOULD a 250.oo REFUND , be fair to both parties [and clear your name
as a 'seller'] ???....jeez........SETTLE UP, BE A MAN...DAVE PETTEE !!!

-''He will apply the refund toward the rebuild. The amp comes back to me after being repaired''.
''He sounds like a good guy''.

-ya-think ?, i'm think'in he knew about the 'caps', and took full advantage of one of OUR own!.[more quotes to come of this 'BALD- FACE LIAR' !!!]
-* © Küül ®™ /mx...
-Too hip gotta book
-"Don't BAN me Bro!"...el/doro

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bob p
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Post by bob p » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:15 am

Man, I feel your pain about this ordeal. There's just no excuse for unethical selling practices. Having repaired my fair share of electronic gear over the years, I'd like to share a little information about amps with old caps. In doing this I'm going to try to remain neutral to the parties involved, and try to only address technical considerations. This is gonna be one of my really long novel-type posts, so I'm going to split it up into two separate posts.

First, caps are the weak point in any old amp.
Their design specs never envisioned them to remain functional for 20+ years. Caps are rated to have a life span in the thousands of hours. A typical design specification is that a cap will be guaranteed to be in-spec for 1,000 hours. The total anticipated lifespan in "intermittent-duty consumer use" is 10 years or less. The total anticipated lifespan in "continuous duty/commerical use" is much less. Any cap that makes it that far is the equivalent of a 90-year old man. Any lifespan that the cap enjoys beyond that has to be considered as "gravy." Just like people don't live to be 200, caps can't be expected to keep working for 20+ years. When they do still work at that age, you're lucky, and realistically speaking you should expect that your luck will not last forever.

Second, caps will have a shortened lifespan if the amp does not see regular periods of use. Putting an amp on a shelf and not running it for a long time is a recipe for disaster. Before an amp like that is returned to service, the caps should be reformed. Unfortunately, this almost never happens.

Third, when an old amp that has been out of service is returned to service, the caps tend to experience one of three fates: a) they fail immediately, b) they work fine for a short time and then fail soon after, or c) they work for a long time. Outcome B is the rule rather than the exception. Its typical that when an old amp that sits for a while is returned to service, it runs great for a short while and then suddenly dies for no apparent reason.

The question then, is what sort of expectations should anyone have when buying/selling a 20-year old used amp. As much as I hate to say it, these kinds of failures are the norm rather than the exception, so they should be expected to happen. A seller who understands this would have to have rocks in his head to offer any sort of time-based warranty on a 20-year old used product whose caps are still working at twice their life expectancy. Similarly, a buyer would have to be naive to expect that any 20-year old amp that hasn't been restored is anything less than a ticking time bomb.

What this means then, is that the well informed buyer and seller should be prepared for the fact that the amp is going fail sooner or later, and Murphy's law prevailing, the failure will take place at the time that the amp is sold to someone else. Its no surprise that when an amp is moved from a no-demand/low-demand environment to a high-demand environment (just what you'd expect when an audiophile buys a used amp and takes it from shelf-life to in-service use), that the amp is likely to fail. If I bougt the amp, I would expect it to fail. I push my amps hard, and taking an old amp and deploying it in that type of environment is just asking for failure.

I guess my take home point is to say that everyone who buys a 20-year old Carver amp should expect that it WILL need to be recapped (among other things, like recalibrating the multiple voltage rails and rebiasing the transistors). An amp that's 20-years old and hasn't had this done is seriously overdue for preventive maintenance. Recapping is the first thing that I would do to an amp that I bought for my own use, and I'd factor it into the purchase budget. Unfortunately, most people don't factor that kind of thing into the budget and they find themselves subjected to unpleasant surprises.

Now that we have all of this information on the table, maybe its not fair to blame the seller when an amp dies a week after you buy it. I'm not trying to defend anyone or to place the blame on anyone -- its just that these sorts of failures are a matter of fact for 20+ year old gear. Now if somebody has engaged in fraud, deception or an unethical business practice, that's an entirely different situation.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.

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bob p
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Post by bob p » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:48 am

Part two is about what used amps are really worth. There's a significant difference in value between them. In general, I like to think of used amps as falling into 1 of 3 categories:

1. Broken Amps. These are the amps that have already failed for one reason or another and are in need of repair.

2. Working Amps / Amps that haven't failed (yet). These are 10+ year old amps that are still working properly, but can't be expected to last forever. Some of these amps are working fine, some might look like they're working fine but have subtle internal problems (impending failure modes) that the end user can't see, and some might have intermittent problems.

3. Amps that have been Restored. These are the amps that have been given "the treatment" (rebuilt) by a professional, have had all of the required PM performed, and are essentially working as if they were brand-new.

Most of the amps that you will buy are going to fall into Category 2. They might be amps that are working fine now, but they're amps that are going to fail sooner or later. For a Carver amp that's 20+ years old, my money is on sooner rather than later.

So what's the best choice for someone whose shopping for used gear? Assuming that we're talking about amps in Category 2, the answer to that question depends entirely upon whether you get lucky and get a "good amp" that will last a while, whether you get a "good amp" that will have some residual service life before it needs to go in for resotration, or whether you buy an amp that just dies and needs to go in for service. It also depends on where you get your amp serviced and what it will cost.

There are companies out there that will take ANY Carver amp and charge a flat-rate fee to repair it, regardless of what's wrong with it. That can be a really good deal if you start off with a dead amp and you factor restoration costs into your budget. But it can be a really bad deal for you if you buy an amp that you think is a good amp, only to find that it needs to go in for professional restoration treatment. If that happens, you might end up having $600 in a $300 amp. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Here's why:

I honestly think that a good, top-notch Carver amp that has been fully restored is worth every penny of $600, just as a used, un-restored "working" Carver amp is worth about $300. When the amp has to be refurbished, its going to require professional service, and the market currently places a $300 premium on that sort of rebuild for parts and labor.

Maybe its more realistic to consider that at the $300 price point, any used Carver amp is going to be a crap shoot, and that you should set aside additional money in your budget for repair and/or restoration. That way you won't be disappointed. Unfortunately, when buying used gear on ePrey most buyers and sellers don't have the ability to know what they're really buying/selling, and its always a case of Caveat Emptor.

To put this in perspective then, I think that the garden variety used Carver is probably worth about $300, and that a fully restored amp is worth significantly more. That is, if you can find them, and if you can tell what kind of amp you're actually looking at. For this reason, I would be inclined to assume that every amp on ePrey falls into category 2, and not to assume that an amp falls into Category 3 unless you know the provenance of the amp and its true condition.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.

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