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It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:48 am

sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

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angelod307

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Post Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:06 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

radioeng2 wrote:Oh....NO!!

Another fuckin' foreigner in our midst!!



I fool them all.......american as well, american. Since kindergarden i have lived in america...
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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Magnaryder

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Post Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:25 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

radioeng2 wrote:Oh....NO!!

Another fuckin' foreigner in our midst!!
Splains alot don't it?

Where's the fucking Brit?

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Cardas Silver wire service and wire block, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12 & 1700 decks, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, Carver HR-742 reciever, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Dahlquist DQ-8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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radioeng2

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Post Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:29 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

Magnaryder wrote:
radioeng2 wrote:Oh....NO!!

Another fuckin' foreigner in our midst!!
Splains alot don't it?

Where's the fucking Brit?

ray


Yes...new understanding has come to the whole Angelo situation.

I suppose there were a few little clues, if I'd have been paying attention. But wow...who'da thunk!
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Magnaryder

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Post Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:55 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

radioeng2 wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:
radioeng2 wrote:Oh....NO!!

Another fuckin' foreigner in our midst!!
Splains alot don't it?

Where's the fucking Brit?

ray


Yes...new understanding has come to the whole Angelo situation.

I suppose there were a few little clues, if I'd have been paying attention. But wow...who'da thunk!

See what happens when you're not listening :-)

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Cardas Silver wire service and wire block, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12 & 1700 decks, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, Carver HR-742 reciever, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Dahlquist DQ-8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Location: manning, sc

Post Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:37 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

So, the euro has a different part number than the us version. 356-026-01 or 356-026-00 for the transformer. I remember seeing a few on the shelf
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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surdo

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Post Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:33 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

I'll send some photos in the next post - before I do:

I wrote to seller to ask about the power lead. He said that he thought the amp was purchased in the US and that it was purchased along with the pre-amp (a sunfire I assume). The power lead he insists is original and that it was designed to plug into an auxiliary power outlet on the pre-amp.

As Bob P pointed out the amp has a CE mark on the back - and given it's a 220V it was possibly purchased in Europe. Along with the amp the seller also sent a short extension which he says is original. This extension allows you to plug the amp into a wall socket and has an earth pin that is sheared off. Searching the internet it looks like an Italian plug. The extension itself is made in China - but really there's no way of telling if it originally came with the amp.

Photos soon....
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surdo

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Post Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:10 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

Battery in the camera ran out - please let me know if you need any more - thanks

serial.JPG
Serial


plug.JPG


internal1.JPG


int2.JPG


int3.JPG


int4.JPG


int5.JPG


mains_plug.JPG


power.JPG
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surdo

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Post Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

And to answer fill35U's question: the amp is plugged into a surge-guard and this is plugged into 220v, 60Hz mains outlet. As I mentioned earlier the outlets in this apartment are not earthed, unfortunately, that's the situation, but I am moving shortly to another property where I can ensure the sockets are earthed.

From the photos above, to me at least, the power supply does not seem to be modified and lacks an earth.

Cheers - and a good weekend to everyone.
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bob p

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Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:15 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

surdo wrote:From the photos above, to me at least, the power supply does not seem to be modified and lacks an earth.


I'm really disappointed that your pictures have been posted for so many days and none of the smart guys on the forum have pointed out the obvious problem. It jumped right out at me as soon as I saw your first interior shot, internals1.jpg:

Image

I don't agree that your power supply wiring is original. I'm thinking that it has to have been modified. If it hasn't been modified, and that's the original wiring, then I'd recommend that everyone inspect their Sunfire amps to see if they have the same problem. If they do, then the amps were mis-wired at the factory. (I find that hard to believe, no amps wired like this would have passed CE certification.)

Your amp is wired so that the fuse is on the neutral wire instead of the hot wire. That causes two problems:
1) Electrocution Risk
2) Fire Risk, as in burn your house down

Here's why:

1) Electrocution Risk.

All fused devices are required to have the fuse placed in the hot (black) wire for safety. With the fuse in the hot side of the supply, if there's ever a short that takes place that causes the power to go to the chassis, or to any other destination that's not the neutral wire, then the current through the amp will surge and the fuse is supposed to pop. With the fuse placed in the negative limb of the AC supply, an electrocution type of incident will never allow the fuse to pop. Instead of having a 5-amp fuse in the device pop, you'll be relying upon a high current (normally 15 amp or 20 amp) breaker to open in order to stop the current. Someone is likely to be be dead long before that happens. The reality is that the fuse isn't in your amp in order to prevent you from electrocution. Good wiring with a grounded chassis and a GFCI is the best way to prevent being electrocuted by a malfunctioning Class 1 device.

2) Fire Risk.

Fuses need to be in the hot (black) limb of the supply mains. They are never to be located in the white (neutral) limb. If there is some problem that should develop where your amp develops a short circuit, the wiring is supposed to be designed so that the current passes out of the amp to earth via a dedicated ground wire that is thick enough to be rated for the full current carrying capacity of the device. Notice that your amp doesn't have any such ground wire. As a result, if the chassis goes hot, then current will no longer pass out through the neutral (white) wire and it will not pop your fuse. Since it doesn't have a ground wire, the electricity will find any way out that it can.

When that happens, all of the current is going to exit through any available low resistance path to ground. Since you don't have a ground wire, the only path out of a hot chassis will be via the interconnects. Hopefully one of your other components is grounded, so that the electricity won't pass into a user who happens to touch the hot chassis. The problem, though, is that an interconnet isn't an adequate ground path. It's not rated to carry the full current of an unfused hot mains supply. At this point, the only thing standing between you and a fire is a GFCI (if you have one on the amp) and your circuit breaker in the mains panel. But long before the circuit breaker would trip, that little interconnect would burst into flames, and when the wire insulation bursts into flames, you've got a house fire.

Fuses are supposed to be installed on the hot side of the mains supply in order to prevent house fires. Your amp has a fuse in the neutral side of the mains supply, which renders the fuse worthless.

If that were my amp, I'd re-wire the supply mains to get rid of the neutral fuse, and I'd move the fuse to the hot side of the line. You need to do this right now. While you're at it, I'd add a grounded line. Granted the ground wire may not help you until you move to an apartment with grounded outlets, but you can use an adapter between now and then.

Also, what's up with that transistor that's got the heatsink compound dribbled over it? It looks like somebody who didn't know what he was doing was working on that part of the amp. I'd check that out too.

Image
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2689

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Location: manning, sc

Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

The white is normal, a thermal protection part. As for how long this has been up, i just noticed it , so not very long as i look alot for new stuff. What does happen to me, i see the same name and sometimes assume no new posts.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Location: manning, sc

Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

So yeah, surdo made three posts in a row. I over looked it .
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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bob p

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Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:50 pm

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

in what alternate universe does that pile of goo constitute a thermal junction?
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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jvandyke_texas

TFM-6cb

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Location: Texas

Post Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:10 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

angelod307 wrote:The white is normal, a thermal protection part.

Spilled heatsink goo is more a sign of carelessness. I guess that's normal depending on who's been in the amp.
Phase Linear 4000 Series I,II, 700B Series I,II, Carver C-4000 champagne, black, C-4000t, TX-11a, AR-XB, Pioneer PL-512, Speakerlab K
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Location: manning, sc

Post Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:51 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

bob p wrote:in what alternate universe does that pile of goo constitute a thermal junction?



I am guessing, the silicone type whatever holds a thermal looking device to the case of the transistor...but i am guessing.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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jvandyke_texas

TFM-6cb

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Post Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:42 am

Re: sunfire signature has no earth/ground?

Bad guess. The peanut butter goes inside the sandwich, not on the outside of the bread.
Phase Linear 4000 Series I,II, 700B Series I,II, Carver C-4000 champagne, black, C-4000t, TX-11a, AR-XB, Pioneer PL-512, Speakerlab K
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